Ferrari F14T

[diffuser]

Was watching Sky F1 post race coverage and in Ted Note Book, He mention something along the lines that Ferrari could have possibly pick the wrong turbo size and this may be a reason why there engine is not as power as the rest?

Has anyone else heard anything along those lines or is this just another rumour?

Who knows if this is true, but it could explain some of the deficit. If Ferrari sized the turbo for optimal ICE performance, they may not be able to extract as much power from the MGUH. A turbo that was 'over sized' for the ICE would allow for more power extraction while still providing maximum boost to the ICE.

This quote from SD seems to indicate Ferrari believes the ICE is competative in terms of performance, which leaves the MGUK/H as the cause of the current shortfall:

"We knew from the very beginning that with these rules changes the challenge will be massive. When we went about designing the 2014 car we knew it would not only be a matter of the engine - where we believe we are quite strong - but also a matter of considering the whole power unit. We know that other engine manufacturers have advanced knowledge because they use that technology in their road cars, so we knew it was not going to be easy. But we know the areas where we need to improve and falling into disappointment doesn’t help. I know that we have improved our organisation in some areas where we have been weak…"

Actually i'm pretty sure they know exactly where they are about ICE power, sound spectrograph softwares are good tools to compare engines performance when you aren't allow to see telemetry data

I think the limiting factor for the internal combustion engine is fuel flow and not Turbo Boost. I'M also pretty sure that in testing they made sure all the physical parts of the PU (which they knew they would not be able to change during the year) were sized right. That after all would be gross negligence.

[diffuser]

Was watching Sky F1 post race coverage and in Ted Note Book, He mention something along the lines that Ferrari could have possibly pick the wrong turbo size and this may be a reason why there engine is not as power as the rest?

Has anyone else heard anything along those lines or is this just another rumour?

Who knows if this is true, but it could explain some of the deficit. If Ferrari sized the turbo for optimal ICE performance, they may not be able to extract as much power from the MGUH. A turbo that was 'over sized' for the ICE would allow for more power extraction while still providing maximum boost to the ICE.

This quote from SD seems to indicate Ferrari believes the ICE is competative in terms of performance, which leaves the MGUK/H as the cause of the current shortfall:

"We knew from the very beginning that with these rules changes the challenge will be massive. When we went about designing the 2014 car we knew it would not only be a matter of the engine - where we believe we are quite strong - but also a matter of considering the whole power unit. We know that other engine manufacturers have advanced knowledge because they use that technology in their road cars, so we knew it was not going to be easy. But we know the areas where we need to improve and falling into disappointment doesn’t help. I know that we have improved our organisation in some areas where we have been weak…"

Actually i'm pretty sure they know exactly where they are about ICE power, sound spectrograph softwares are good tools to compare engines performance when you aren't allow to see telemetry data

From what I understand of the MGUH is it is basically an electric motor/generator sharing a common axle to the Turbine wheel and compressor wheel. The turbine being what get's spun by the exhaust. Compressor wheel creates the boost. The generator/Electric motor that generates electricity or can be used to spin up the compressor to reduce Lag. I've read that these thing spin at 100k RPM. I think that the generator probably generates max charge way below that.

[f300v10]

Generating electricity from the MGUH pulls power off of the turbo shaft. The peak electric power possible from the MGU-H would then be the total turbine power minus the power required to generate maximum boost. So the question is, can the Ferrari turbine generate as much power as the Mercedes? If not, then there is little chance of the Ferrari PU matching the Mercedes this year. The turbo is homoligated for the season, and can't be modified this year other than to improve reliability.

[.poz]

Was watching Sky F1 post race coverage and in Ted Note Book, He mention something along the lines that Ferrari could have possibly pick the wrong turbo size and this may be a reason why there engine is not as power as the rest?

Has anyone else heard anything along those lines or is this just another rumour?

Who knows if this is true, but it could explain some of the deficit. If Ferrari sized the turbo for optimal ICE performance, they may not be able to extract as much power from the MGUH. A turbo that was 'over sized' for the ICE would allow for more power extraction while still providing maximum boost to the ICE.

i can't believe this is the problem. When after the 2013 season i started to search more information about the 2014 V6 engines almost everybody here and on other forums agreed that one of the key point of those engines is an over sized turbo to harvest as much energy as possible to feed the MGU-K out of the 33s of the ES.

To me is almost impossible that a skilled team of motor engineer have missed that !

May be it's a question of turbo weight not of turbo size: an over weight turbo can be used as en extra ES

[enz0]

I read Online that real improvements on the F14T will be around by China

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferra ... th-alonso/

It's the last line of the article

[Hail22]

Bahrain Grand Prix 3rd April

[diffuser]

Generating electricity from the MGUH pulls power off of the turbo shaft. The peak electric power possible from the MGU-H would then be the total turbine power minus the power required to generate maximum boost. So the question is, can the Ferrari turbine generate as much power as the Mercedes? If not, then there is little chance of the Ferrari PU matching the Mercedes this year. The turbo is homoligated for the season, and can't be modified this year other than to improve reliability.

Correct me if I'm wrong but my impression is the MGU-H would have very little resistance(easy to spin). Basing that on a car alternator. i mean like a fraction of HP.

[Holm86]

Generating electricity from the MGUH pulls power off of the turbo shaft. The peak electric power possible from the MGU-H would then be the total turbine power minus the power required to generate maximum boost. So the question is, can the Ferrari turbine generate as much power as the Mercedes? If not, then there is little chance of the Ferrari PU matching the Mercedes this year. The turbo is homoligated for the season, and can't be modified this year other than to improve reliability.

Correct me if I'm wrong but my impression is the MGU-H would have very little resistance(easy to spin). Basing that on a car alternator. i mean like a fraction of HP.

An alternator doesnt have much resistance if you spin it when its not mounted on the engine thats correct. But when its mounted on a turning engine which at some point demands a large power output from the alternater the resistance increases a whole lot. That is also how the MGU-H is used to control the boost pressure. It brakes the turbine as the demanded power output from the MGU-H is increased (the magnetic fields gets stronger) and hence the resistance increases so the turbine slows down.

[f300v10]

Correct me if I'm wrong but my impression is the MGU-H would have very little resistance(easy to spin). Basing that on a car alternator. i mean like a fraction of HP.

You can't generate power from nothing. The more power generated by the MGU-H, the more resistance/load it puts on the turbo shaft.

[diffuser]

Correct me if I'm wrong but my impression is the MGU-H would have very little resistance(easy to spin). Basing that on a car alternator. i mean like a fraction of HP.[/quote]

An alternator doesnt have much resistance if you spin it when its not mounted on the engine thats correct. But when its mounted on a turning engine which at some point demands a large power output from the alternater the resistance increases a whole lot. That is also how the MGU-H is used to control the boost pressure. It brakes the turbine as the demanded power output from the MGU-H is increased (the magnetic fields gets stronger) and hence the resistance increases so the turbine slows down.[/quote]


So the turbine slows down ..from 100k to 99k ? More ? At what Turbo RPM is max boost acheived. In other words is it achieved at 50K so if the we loose 20K from 100K we're still can achieve max boost? I presume there is a Turbo RPM which is required to produce max boost and another RPM to generate max electric charge, lets say 50K and 60K respectively. The goal in the design of the engine would have been to maintain Turbo RPM above 60K at all times. With the understanding that you only need boost when you're on the throttle, don't need to charge the battery when it is fully charged, you don't need to be at or above 60K all the time and that demand will change from track to track.


I guess if a simpleton like myself can see all the calculations that need to be made to race, people at Ferrari will have done so as well.

[stefan_]

Bahrain 2014 - Thursday (03.04.2014)

[jagunx51]

comparison ..

http://i.imgur.com/E2S3qeJ.jpg

[Kansas]

anyone has the picture of ferrari 's new suspension built for Kimi enquiries?

[Unc1eM0nty]

anyone has the picture of ferrari 's new suspension built for Kimi enquiries?

I don't think they've designed and built new suspension just for Kimi, they do need to spend more time tuning it to suit his style though, either was you wont be able to see anything different on the car.

[Kansas]

anyone has the picture of ferrari 's new suspension built for Kimi enquiries?

I don't think they've designed and built new suspension just for Kimi, they do need to spend more time tuning it to suit his style though, either was you wont be able to see anything different on the car.

Still better than nothing.....as that's the only upgrades that ferrari brought over to bahrain apart from software update...