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Not hugely surprising, they're trying to slow a larger mass, with less grippy rubber, with less force pushing down on it, with breaks that require minute tuning to get them to feel right.timbo wrote:Interesting to see braking distances increasing dramatically.
Sure. Just interesting to see by how much. When (if) we get that Brembo press releases we can workout the grip reduction overall.beelsebob wrote:Not hugely surprising, they're trying to slow a larger mass, with less grippy rubber, with less force pushing down on it, with breaks that require minute tuning to get them to feel right.timbo wrote:Interesting to see braking distances increasing dramatically.
That's what I hoped, however I think that most guys are on top of the braking all the time, so genuinly outbraking somebody would still be rare.beelsebob wrote:Hopefully that's exactly what will lead to more overtaking opportunities – the breaking zones had got much too short in the past.
If your engine can run higher rpm and you optimise the power train for it then yes you "should" get more peak power.megz wrote:That isn't the implication, that Revs were the be all and end all. I'm aware the Renault V10 was often considered to be the most driveable or most torquey back then but you have to admit - revs were important back then, why else were teams chasing them so much?
Hamilton talked about braking in his BBC column last weekbeelsebob wrote:Not hugely surprising, they're trying to slow a larger mass, with less grippy rubber, with less force pushing down on it, with breaks that require minute tuning to get them to feel right.timbo wrote:Interesting to see braking distances increasing dramatically.
Hopefully that's exactly what will lead to more overtaking opportunities – the breaking zones had got much too short in the past.
There are all sorts of ways to affect that: how late or early you change gears, what gear you take a corner in - and in particular, when you're braking and using a technique called 'lift and coast'.
Despite the name, 'lift and coast' does not mean cruising. You're trying to be as fast as you can, and you're still going through the corner on the limit, but you have to approach the corner slightly differently otherwise you won't make the end of the race.
You save most fuel by lifting and coasting in the heavy braking zones at the end of long straights into slow corners.
When you're driving absolutely flat out, such as on a qualifying lap, you would brake at, say, 80m from the corner, come straight off the throttle and get on the brakes, almost instantly together.
But on a fuel-saving lap in the race you'll lift at, say, 200m, and coast to the braking zone. In an F1 car, just lifting off the throttle decelerates the car by 1G, so you still slow down quite a lot.
That means you start braking at a different place - you have to brake later than before or you'll slow down too much.
So the trick is to know how much later you have to brake depending on where you lifted.
You're trying to get that to the optimum so you're not locking the brakes, and so you're losing as little time as possible with the lift and coast technique. That is the challenge and it is not easy.
It has a knock-on effect on how you set the car up, too, because its behaviour changes between qualifying and race day.
In qualifying, you are stabbing the brakes, getting the car to move and pitch when you're in the braking zone. It's right on the nose into the apex of the corner.
But when you lift and coast, it feels different. You are trying to be on the limit. But it is like doing it handicapped, so it's really difficult.
You're still pushing, but when you hit the brakes the weight transfer is different, and it changes the way the car behaves going into the corner. The balance shifts.
Comparing a qualy pole lap with a race fastest lap...CHT wrote:Aonso
"The fastest lap in Malaysia was 1m34.8s with Vettel some years ago (his pole time in 2011), and Hamilton did a 1m43.0s [fastest race lap last weekend], so that's nine seconds."
"And behind the wheel, when you drive nine seconds slower, you don't enjoy as much as driving the fast car."
and no fuel restriction. The overall time for malaysia 2013 v 2014 was around a minute and a half slower. So on average about 1.5 seconds per lap which I don't see as a huge amount considering how much they've had taken away and how much quicker these cars will get by the end of the year. We should also remember that the fastest car wasn't pushing at all and could have gone considerably faster. I also sense that all the teams are being cautious with their cars as they're not confident on reliability. That is to say, they're not confident on the reliability of everyone. The common consensus at the beginning of the season was that during the first few races, you'd just have to finish to get decent points. Teams are finding that this approach isn't necessarily bagging them the huge points they thought it would and I wouldn't be surprised if everyone starts to get more racy as the season goes on.Blackout wrote:Comparing a qualy pole lap with a race fastest lap...CHT wrote:Aonso
"The fastest lap in Malaysia was 1m34.8s with Vettel some years ago (his pole time in 2011), and Hamilton did a 1m43.0s [fastest race lap last weekend], so that's nine seconds."
"And behind the wheel, when you drive nine seconds slower, you don't enjoy as much as driving the fast car."
AFAIK, Webber fatsest lap in the 2011 race was a 1:40... so just 3 seconds... and those cars had 70kg less + EBD...
It doesn't matter why they're slower, just that they are. And a lot.bonjon1979 wrote:and no fuel restriction. The overall time for malaysia 2013 v 2014 was around a minute and a half slower. So on average about 1.5 seconds per lap which I don't see as a huge amount considering how much they've had taken away and how much quicker these cars will get by the end of the year. We should also remember that the fastest car wasn't pushing at all and could have gone considerably faster. I also sense that all the teams are being cautious with their cars as they're not confident on reliability. That is to say, they're not confident on the reliability of everyone. The common consensus at the beginning of the season was that during the first few races, you'd just have to finish to get decent points. Teams are finding that this approach isn't necessarily bagging them the huge points they thought it would and I wouldn't be surprised if everyone starts to get more racy as the season goes on.Blackout wrote:Comparing a qualy pole lap with a race fastest lap...CHT wrote:Aonso
"The fastest lap in Malaysia was 1m34.8s with Vettel some years ago (his pole time in 2011), and Hamilton did a 1m43.0s [fastest race lap last weekend], so that's nine seconds."
"And behind the wheel, when you drive nine seconds slower, you don't enjoy as much as driving the fast car."
AFAIK, Webber fatsest lap in the 2011 race was a 1:40... so just 3 seconds... and those cars had 70kg less + EBD...