2014 engine power from onboard videos

[Blanchimont]

Thanks puma, so your best estimation says 690 hp, the numbers from my first try result in 708hp at the wheels, not that far off. As you said some of the curves look weird when you try to fit a constant power, maybe the next dry qualifying without wind will show better results.


If i include the effective mass factor, do you think that

e = 1,05 + 0,02*( gearratio_currentgear / gearratio_topgear )^2

or

e = MINIMUM( 1,4 ; 1,05 + 0,02*( 340km/h / current_carspeed )^2)

is a good approximation for it?

[Pumaracing]

If i include the effective mass factor, do you think that

e = 1,05 + 0,02*( gearratio_currentgear / gearratio_topgear )^2

I would suggest :

e = 45 kg (wheels, tyres etc) + 4kg*( gearratio_currentgear / gearratio_topgear )^2 (engine components)

For the F1 car I use 100 lb (45kg) for wheels, tyres, brake discs etc (being approx 75% of the total mass of these components) and then for engine components a separate equation much as you suggest calculates the inertia in each gear based on the gear ratio, tyre radius, engine component mass and the average radius of gyration of that mass. The engine component part of this is minimal for an F1 engine given there is no flywheel really, the largest component in a normal engine, and ultra light weight and small radius of gyration for everything else. In a road car engine it's quite a big influence on overall performance though.

Yes, maybe on another track we'll get a better correlation with timing data. I suggest you try and find out gradients of the straights at each track or confine the data to straights that are as level as possible. However as I said my program will factor in gradients if the data is known. I've rarely had to use it though.

[stez90]

http://blog.ilgiornale.it/casadeilucchi ... o-benzing/

check the analysis from engineer Enrico Benzing.. in some previous entry of the blog he also explain how he calculates those results from available data.

[FoxHound]

So what is the maximum power for an icu with 1.6 litre capacity from 6 cylinders arranged in V configuration from a maximum 100kg fuel allowance per hour?

Theoretically.

[PhilS13]

Unfortunately the beginning of Rosbergs pole lap wasn't part of the youtube video, the part were DRS is used from 280km/h to 326km/h.

You now have that part of the lap on the formula1.com onboard.

edit : also here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCPqLIoIAr8

edit2 :nevermind. you already had it

[prokopi]

So what is the maximum power for an icu with 1.6 litre capacity from 6 cylinders arranged in V configuration from a maximum 100kg fuel allowance per hour? Theoretically

It depends upon the efficiency.
Thermal power of burning 100 kg gazoline per hour is approximately (45MJ x 100 kg) / 3600 sec = 1250 KW. If we assume that maximum possible efficiency of a turbo engine with compression ratio between 10 and 15 is around 40% then maximum possible mechanical power should be around 1250 x 0.4 = 500 KW or 680 bhp, or say definitely no more than 700 bhp.

[Pumaracing]

Hi Blanchimont,

May I propose something to you? We still need to do some work on the transmission and tyre losses to work back from wheel bhp to flywheel bhp. I suggest this would best be done with the 2013 cars where we have good data on the flywheel bhp. If we can work out the 2013 wheel bhp by your method in conjunction with my computer simulation resources we can apply that to the 2014 cars. We just need 2013 acceleration data from onboard footage. Can you supply any?

[gruntguru]

Hi Blanchimont. Nice analysis.

You say you only apply the method at speeds above the traction limit but have you corrected for rolling wheel slip? When wheel torque is very close to the longitudinal traction limit there will typically be about 10% wheel slip which equates to 10% of wheel-power lost to friction leaving 90% for acceleration. Clearly wheel slip reduces as speed increases and wheel torque reduces further below the traction limit but there will always be wheel slip whenever torque is applied to the wheel.

[beelsebob]

So what is the maximum power for an icu with 1.6 litre capacity from 6 cylinders arranged in V configuration from a maximum 100kg fuel allowance per hour? Theoretically

It depends upon the efficiency.
Thermal power of burning 100 kg gazoline per hour is approximately (45MJ x 100 kg) / 3600 sec = 1250 KW. If we assume that maximum possible efficiency of a turbo engine with compression ratio between 10 and 15 is around 40% then maximum possible mechanical power should be around 1250 x 0.4 = 500 KW or 680 bhp, or say definitely no more than 700 bhp.

Given that Mercedes had the explicit goal of beating 40%, an assumption that they're only at 40% would be a poor one.

[johnsonwax]

Given that Mercedes had the explicit goal of beating 40%, an assumption that they're only at 40% would be a poor one.

Agreed.

He said technology transfer to road cars from the new F1 engines, with their dual energy recovery systems, was already happening and he hailed the "incredible" achievement of all the engine designers in F1.
The new F1 engines have a thermal efficiency of "40% and above" - better than that of a road-going diesel.
"Never before did we do such a huge step forward in such a small space of time from a V8 naturally aspirated engine to downsizing, turbocharged, all the technologies with one step," Weber said.

Dr Thomas Weber, Daimler board member. I don't think he would have stated that if Merc wasn't safely above 40%.

[Cold Fussion]

The compounded efficiency may be above 40%, I doubt very much the ICE BTE is above 40%.

[beelsebob]

The compounded efficiency may be above 40%, I doubt very much the ICE BTE is above 40%.

No, Mercedes stated that their goal was a 40% thermally efficient ICE. The various recovery mechanisms are on top of that.

[OO7]

No, Mercedes stated that their goal was a 40% thermally efficient ICE. The various recovery mechanisms are on top of that.

Listening to Andy Cowell and Rob White at 2:30 & 12:00 respectively in the youtube video post at the bottom, they (particularly Andy Cowell) mentions just how significant a technological leap has been taken with the current power units in reference to efficiency. Can we be certain that the thermal efficiency figures mentioned were specific to the ICE (would such efficiencies when coupled with the ERS represent a significant leap)?
If as Rob White mentions, that you need to be a little over 40% to be competitive and they're talking specifically about the ICE, would that mean power figures in excess of 860bhp?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYc_Z4G5luU[/youtube]

[Cold Fussion]

The compounded efficiency may be above 40%, I doubt very much the ICE BTE is above 40%.

No, Mercedes stated that their goal was a 40% thermally efficient ICE. The various recovery mechanisms are on top of that.

A 40% efficient ICE would be the in the region of 690hp, when adding the the 160hp from the mgu-k you'll have 850 hp. There is no way they are running 850 hp.

[OO7]

A 40% efficient ICE would be the in the region of 690hp, when adding the the 160hp from the mgu-k you'll have 850 hp. There is no way they are running 850 hp.

Would 40% efficiency of the total power unit, ICE and ERS, be seen as a huge milestone and technological leap?