CFD - Computational Fluid Dynamics, Motorsport, Formula 1

[kilcoo316]

The problem is gonna be getting the files to me first, then after that I'd have to get them uploaded as a torrent.

[miqi23]

Getting geomtry files to you shouldnt be a problem since they are not large enough, however mesh files can be a pain! Unless you want to mesh some bits your self... !!!

[MMUK]

Hello,

I just came across this thread (and forum) and thought it was a brilliant idea. I've got a fair bit of undergrad,postgrad CFD experience as well as a little industrial.

Im looking to further expand on this experience. Does anyone have any f1-style geometries kicking around they wouldnt mind sending me? I would be happy to do an analysis for the thread in the same vane as previous posters.

Call me lazy but im really not looking to fart around too much in CAD, would rather spend more time on meshing, processing, and post processing!

[miqi23]

I appreciate your offer mate, too bad I am rammed with loads of work and cannot spare time to get something started. Well, you can propose something and battle with CAD for a while

[MMUK]

Guess ill fire up PRO/E then...

[TeamFFX]

Hi guys,

I am reasonably new to CFD (proper CFD, I've been messing around for a while) so can people just confirm something for me?

As far as I can tell, there are several packages for CFD, and they fall into 2 camps: CFD Simulation, and Pre/Post Processing & Meshing Packages.

Am I correct in thinking:

CFD Packages
Star CD
Fluent
CFX

Pre/Post Processing & Meshing
Star CCM+
Gambit
ICEM CFD


Am I also correct in thinking that for CFD sim, ICEM is the "best" for "Formula" automotive work, and ICEM CFD is the "best" meshing and pre/post tool?

How does the CD Adapco stuff fare alongside this?

And finally, do the pre/post tools mesh for other types of analysis (FEM / thermal etc) or *just* CFD?

Cheers,

Martin

[kilcoo316]

When you start using ICEM, you'll see the range of packages it meshes for.


For any kind of FEM or FVM solver, it should be possible to use most meshing tools, through different export and import files.


I haven't used any of the CD Adapco stuff ever, so cannot really comment... [Star-CD is from CD Adapco BTW].



I'm using ICEM for meshing and CFX for everything else at the moment. But one of my mates working in ANSYS on CFX recommends the CFX mesher - but haven't used it much.


I know of at least 2 formula 1 teams using CFX [BMW and RBR], and 1 that was using Fluent [ferrari], not sure if they still are, but I'd assume so.

[AeroGT3]

When you start using ICEM, you'll see the range of packages it meshes for.


For any kind of FEM or FVM solver, it should be possible to use most meshing tools, through different export and import files.


I haven't used any of the CD Adapco stuff ever, so cannot really comment... [Star-CD is from CD Adapco BTW].



I'm using ICEM for meshing and CFX for everything else at the moment. But one of my mates working in ANSYS on CFX recommends the CFX mesher - but haven't used it much.


I know of at least 2 formula 1 teams using CFX [BMW and RBR], and 1 that was using Fluent [ferrari], not sure if they still are, but I'd assume so.

BMW F1 uses Fluent for solving and ICEM CFD for post processing. Techplot360 is used almost unanimously for post processing.

[kilcoo316]

BMW F1 uses Fluent for solving and ICEM CFD for post processing. Techplot360 is used almost unanimously for post processing.

As of last thursday my buddy in ansys was like a kid in a sweet shop about BMW - I thought he said they were using CFX, but I'll check it when I'm next talking to him and confirm that either way.

[miqi23]

Hi guys,

I am reasonably new to CFD (proper CFD, I've been messing around for a while) so can people just confirm something for me?

As far as I can tell, there are several packages for CFD, and they fall into 2 camps: CFD Simulation, and Pre/Post Processing & Meshing Packages.

Am I correct in thinking:

CFD Packages
Star CD
Fluent
CFX

Pre/Post Processing & Meshing
Star CCM+
Gambit
ICEM CFD


Am I also correct in thinking that for CFD sim, ICEM is the "best" for "Formula" automotive work, and ICEM CFD is the "best" meshing and pre/post tool?

How does the CD Adapco stuff fare alongside this?

And finally, do the pre/post tools mesh for other types of analysis (FEM / thermal etc) or *just* CFD?

Cheers,

Martin

Martin, the term 'CFD package' is generally used in quick conversations here and there, however it does not imply to the products you have mentioned in your post. Star CD and Fluent are flow solvers for a CFD simulation where it solves the Navier-Stokes equations etc. And in CFD, pre-processing generally refers to meshing and surface preparation. Only Gambit and ICEM CFD comes under that. Star CCM is rather for every thing i.e meshing, solving and post processing.

All stand alone meshing packages that I know of can mesh both for CFD and FEA applications, you just write it out for different solvers.

Regarding your query about CD Adapco products, trust me mate they are very hard to use and not user friendly at all. It is rather a developers tool! With regards to your meshing query, it really depends on what you want to mesh. Try combining ANSA and t-grid for applications such as external aerodynamics. Use ANSA for surface meshing and t-grid for volume mesh. Or at the same time write your own volume mesher so that it generates volume meshes specific to your choice which gurantees accuracy!

Hope this helps and apologies if you knew it all.

[TeamFFX]

Thanks Miqi23! I did not know a lot of that

I have been looking at CFDesign recently, because it integrates with Inventor (which is now my solid modelling tool of choice - I come from a Maya and 3DS Max background, so sticking with AutoDesk was easy!). However, I'm not convinced that it is a suitable replacement for Fluent.

I will not look any further into the CD Adapco stuff then - it is useful to know how tough they are to use, because all you get on the websites is marketing speak that says they are the best thing since sliced bread

I am going to be meshing various parts of a large scale model F1 car I am building. Mainly for aero analysis, but I will also be meshing various suspension and transmission components for FEM analysis.

Thanks!

Martin

[miqi23]

CFDesign can be a good tool for you as a starter. CFDesign is like other CFD tools however designed for engineers and not CFD specialists. Basically it captures the flow domain in your geometry and meshes it automatically and later on solves for a solution. Post-processing is also done in CFDesign using its built in post-processor.

Similar products are FloWorks, EFD.Lab (I think now owned by Flomerics), StarWorks by CD Adapco and a lot more. What concerns me a lot about these tools are their capability to mesh large and complex models such as an F1 car.

Although CFDesign integrates with Pro-E, Solidworks, and Inventor etc, you still have to pay for a CAD seat. However in case of tools like FloWorks there is no need to pay for a separate CAD seat. Since you already have access to AutoDesk Inventor then CAD shouldnt be a problem.

Moreover, its no point comparing CFDesign with Fluent or StarCD because they are in a league of their own. BTW when you say you are going to mesh different parts for aero analysis, what solver are you using and which meshing package?

[Legendary_M]

Hey, I have een designing my own f1 car, i poster a topic about it few weeks ago, also i am learning fluent. anyway i have decided to upload the model so far, it is designed in Solid Edge V18 and ill upload a step file. I have done mos of the chassis and the front nose, but not the front wing.
Ill upload it shortly

[Legendary_M]

ok heres the link
http://www.sharebigfile.com/file/150470/f1-car-zip.html

[kilcoo316]

CFDesign can be a good tool for you as a starter. CFDesign is like other CFD tools however designed for engineers and not CFD specialists. Basically it captures the flow domain in your geometry and meshes it automatically and later on solves for a solution. Post-processing is also done in CFDesign using its built in post-processor.

Hmmm.... dunno if I like the sound of that, I'd be weary of the accuracies of a mesh I had no control over.