2014 Spanish Grand Prix - Barcelona

[markn93]

I saw huge signs of improvement for Vettel. He fought himself back very well. He's starting to deal with the fact his car isn't dominant and looked to have more fighting spirit.

This. By no means his biggest fan but I thought he drove very well, good pace, improvised well to overtake cars into T10 as they just couldn't do it down the start/finish straight, my driver of the day.

[NathanOlder]

After 5 races so far I feel that anyone who is disappointed with Mercedes' obvious dominance should be more disappointed with the other teams and their efforts so far in 2014. We all knew 2014 with all the rules/regs changes could have gone any way for any team. The bar has been set for the rest of 2014.. There are still valuable points and $$$ to be earned for second best and we all know that F1 is ultimately a business as much as it is a sport. As a general fan of F1 I would hope that at the very least 2015 will provide a closer gap to the top team.

It does not matter who you are disappointed with, it's way more boring than even the rest of last year.

There is no fighting other than ppl recovering from poor starts, qualifying out of shape results and fresh vs old tires. The intra-team battles are thrilling? To the ones that are claiming this - you surely must be kidding yourselves, or be massive Hamilton supporters as he's on track to WDC.

Yesterday before the F1 race there was the ADAC GT Masters at Zandvoort. So much rain that F1 would never have thought about starting at all and so many intense battles, after that F1 looked even more like a snorefest......I shouldn't watch both series after each other on the same day, too much pain.

you really do need to watch something else if this is how you feel. The way you describe F1 is basically every race in every formula. If everyone qualified well and didnt have a bad start there would be no overtaking at all in all circuit racing. They would just spread out. This year has been very good for on track action. Better than last year I'd say. You just seem so bitter for some reason.

[Mandrake]

I might be blind for the good racing, so please enlighten me. Vettel from P15 to P4 ---> 2nd fastest car was always gonna land somewhere there given no driver or strategic errors. HAM / ROS --> fighting disabled by always pitting Rosberg too late. With the option tire and 1 lap after Lewis Pit he'd have been first and probably won the race, given Lewis' graining issues even in clean air. Other than that there were some DRS (yippie!) overtakes and some tire difference overtakes. But since the tires are so much more durable this year, even the tire effect does not produce "racing".

Last year around this time there were at least 4 drivers in the hunt for the championship and at least 3 teams for WCC. This year it's basically fixed.

I do watch a lot of other stuff, as mentioned above. But F1 was always part of that portfolio. In recent years my addiction has dropped massively, but this year is the icing on the cake.

[Phil]

I might be blind for the good racing, so please enlighten me. Vettel from P15 to P4 ---> 2nd fastest car was always gonna land somewhere there given no driver or strategic errors.

You might be correct - Vettel was always going to be moving up the order. The fact that he started P15 however was precisely why we had some good racing. If he had qualified further up the grid, we wouldn't have seen this. So I guess your point is - if everything was "normal" and expected - the "natural order of things" - we'd effectively have Mercedes filling up the front-row, followed by the Redbull (being the 2nd best team currently) followed by the Ferraris and Mercedes powered teams closer. True. But - then we'd most likely have the battle of team-mates as we've had a few races before - Hamilton and Rosberg would be still fighting for the win, closely followed in intension (probably) by Ricciardo against Vettel - and then the rest of teams closer together fighting for the remaining points. I don't see how this would be less exciting as you put it - actually, I find this would produce even more excitement. Why? Because the drivers within the same team are racing equal machinery. This type of racing is a lot more sincere than pitting a Vettel coming from the back of the grid racing slower cars.

If the main gripe is Mercedes dominance - then I don't see how this is better or worse compared to RedBulls dominance - which they effectively had at the end of last season once the tyre reverted back to older spec. With the exception that the team-battles are way more interesting this year.

You can't stop a single team dominating at the front. Sure, it would be nicer if it was closer - perhaps like in 2012 (which I thought was a pretty good and exciting season). But that came after a year of complete and utter Vettel dominance. This is Mercedes first year of dominating the sport. It's still a long season and I think it can still change. Perhaps not to the degree some are hoping, but even if RedBull can close the gap, we'd have a lot more excitment on our hands. Then there's 2015 coming up, with Honda... and I'm sure Renault and the rest will have learned a lot too...

[krisfx]

After 5 races so far I feel that anyone who is disappointed with Mercedes' obvious dominance should be more disappointed with the other teams and their efforts so far in 2014. We all knew 2014 with all the rules/regs changes could have gone any way for any team. The bar has been set for the rest of 2014.. There are still valuable points and $$$ to be earned for second best and we all know that F1 is ultimately a business as much as it is a sport. As a general fan of F1 I would hope that at the very least 2015 will provide a closer gap to the top team.

It does not matter who you are disappointed with, it's way more boring than even the rest of last year.

There is no fighting other than ppl recovering from poor starts, qualifying out of shape results and fresh vs old tires. The intra-team battles are thrilling? To the ones that are claiming this - you surely must be kidding yourselves, or be massive Hamilton supporters as he's on track to WDC.

Yesterday before the F1 race there was the ADAC GT Masters at Zandvoort. So much rain that F1 would never have thought about starting at all and so many intense battles, after that F1 looked even more like a snorefest......I shouldn't watch both series after each other on the same day, too much pain.

you really do need to watch something else if this is how you feel. The way you describe F1 is basically every race in every formula. If everyone qualified well and didnt have a bad start there would be no overtaking at all in all circuit racing. They would just spread out. This year has been very good for on track action. Better than last year I'd say. You just seem so bitter for some reason.

I agree, It seems like you're just being negative for the sake of it. If F1 is such a snorefest now, you clearly didn't watch 2013/most years before that and if you did, you've obviously got an issue with the fact that Mercedes/Hamilton/Rosberg are up there...

Also the GT masters cars have windscreen wipers, F1 drivers don't, which is why they can run in "much wetter conditons". I don't know if you've ever driven in pouring rain with the spray of 20 odd other drivers in front of you and just your hand to clear your visor, but it's pretty hard to see...

[Mandrake]

You might be correct - Vettel was always going to be moving up the order. The fact that he started P15 however was precisely why we had some good racing. If he had qualified further up the grid, we wouldn't have seen this. So I guess your point is - if everything was "normal" and expected - the "natural order of things" - we'd effectively have Mercedes filling up the front-row, followed by the Redbull (being the 2nd best team currently) followed by the Ferraris and Mercedes powered teams closer.

Sure, I did like seeing Vettel carve through the field, especially since his showings in the first races lacked this dedication. But the more reliable the cars get, the less we'll see such things, and one man driving though the field is not enough to compensate for the rest

If the main gripe is Mercedes dominance - then I don't see how this is better or worse compared to RedBulls dominance - which they effectively had at the end of last season once the tyre reverted back to older spec. With the exception that the team-battles are way more interesting this year.

It's not about Merc, it's a general thing. I assume the car in your avatar is yours? I have roughly the same. Beginning of 2013 I wanted to watch F1 first before taking the car for a spin. End of 2013 I couldn't care about F1 anymore and watched the highlights in the evening after having driven around. And while they were close in the race, was there a single overtaking attempt for the whole race? No. For most parts there was enough of a gap to know that Hamilton has this in the bag.

You can't stop a single team dominating at the front. Sure, it would be nicer if it was closer - perhaps like in 2012 (which I thought was a pretty good and exciting season). But that came after a year of complete and utter Vettel dominance. This is Mercedes first year of dominating the sport. It's still a long season and I think it can still change.

Agreed. 2012 was awesome. But for me it doesn't matter if it's RedBull dominating or Mercedes. What matters is, regardless of who it is, the gap is just too big. Last year there was at least a possibility for other teams/drivers to have a shot at victory and WDC/WCC. This year, nope!

I agree, It seems like you're just being negative for the sake of it. If F1 is such a snorefest now, you clearly didn't watch 2013/most years before that and if you did, you've obviously got an issue with the fact that Mercedes/Hamilton/Rosberg are up there...

Also the GT masters cars have windscreen wipers, F1 drivers don't, which is why they can run in "much wetter conditons". I don't know if you've ever driven in pouring rain with the spray of 20 odd other drivers in front of you and just your hand to clear your visor, but it's pretty hard to see...

As stated above - I did not like end of 2013 either, nor did I find 2011 very exciting. 2009 it was the underdog winning --> cool, I could live with it. 2010 was very close and exciting. 2012 was very exciting. If it was Caterham in the position of Mercedes now, that would be fun to watch

About the rain, of course the cars are different, but I was just hitting in the same spot as everyone does. Races in F1 only start if conditions are almost intermediate ready.

[Phil]

If I am understanding your gripe correctly, it's especially that specifically the WDC/WCC is being dominated. I guess there's no arguing that. Maybe I am biased, being a Lewis fan - so the race(s) to me, had me at the edge of my seat, not knowing if he'll make it or not. I can imagine, being a fan of a different driver to be less interesting - or perhaps to a more "neutral" observer who isn't a particular fan of any driver, to expect a closer race for the win. I still maintain though, that I find the racing this season more interesting by the sole fact that the cars are visibly harder to driver and that the fight is closer between team-mates. If we disegard 2012, then most seasons are usually dominated by a team or perhaps 2 or 3 teams. In the years we've had 4 contenders, I really think we've been spoilt a bit.

But yes, I do think it would be great for the sport if there were more teams contending for wins than are now. Sadly, I think this simply inherently difficult to solve. If you want a more open formula so that teams have the freedom of choice on which areas to concentrate on (may that be aero or power), you will most likely end up with a very expensive solution that is better than many other very expensive solutions that aren't. The result being - one team will always dominate. If you limit the scope of freedom, to what we effectively had the last few years during the V8s - teams will be closer, with the exception of those individuals like Newey who maximized the potential in the aero department.

Personally, I think a gain could be made if the tracks were more different. It would force teams to chose a path - either concentrate on power or aero tracks. Mechanical over downforce grip. Where a car might be better at one circuit, but at a severe disadvantage in another. And I'd definately would want to make cars more difficult to drive. Bring back manual shifting, clutch etc. Also take away wings, so that cars might be able to follow each other more closely. Though - at what point then will this still be 'the formula' we want - being at the technological forefront of development? You can't have it both ways sadly.

Still, I think drivers need more difficult cars. In the golden era of F1 when we had the likes of Senna - the driver could really make a difference. Now days, the field is way more competitive and I feel the drivers are closer to driving the cars at their full potential, making the races more predictable.

Anyway, I think this is the first year of a new Formula. I think it was always going to be dominated by someone - but I'm sure as the season continues, the gap will close, even if it at this point looks a bit unlikely. I don't think 2015 at the very latest will be as dominated by a singular team as it is now.

PS: Yes, that is my car in the profile pic. I don't race it though (professionally), only track days here and there. It's hard to beat "driving on your own" - but then again, I watch F1 for a completely different kick...

[ab_f1]

Somewhere in the thread I read the gap to 2nd best car being 50 sec. I think it is not that big as Ricciardo was held behind Bottas for the first stint and once in this clear air he was able to make good progress. But agree the margin is big.

[NathanOlder]

I dont think the mercs were pushing for the first half of the race. Certainly not the first stint. So im not sure what the gap is. Id say they only pushed hard in bahrain after the safety car went in. As they had the field on theur tails. In spain id have a guess that they were running to a certain map or fuel mode. Pushing the drivers but not the car to the limit. The team had nothing to gain by pushing the cars 100%. Lewis was running 1.30's on friday I believe. Pretty much where he was on sunday near the end, with a lighter car on sunday and a better rubbered in track. I think ilthe car had a good 0.5-1.0 in hand

[kooleracer]

Spannish GP 2013: 1:39:54.869 Vettel
Spannish GP 2014: 1:41:05.155 Hamilton 1:11 delta.

Not bad for a new Formula. Without blown-diffuser, lowerbeam wing, harder tyres, 30%-35% less fuel, shallower FW and RW. Can't wait for Monza for Spa to see how high the topspeeds will be.

The last 4 races Lewis has consintly used less fuel then Rosberg according to the FIA graphics. When or are they giving Lewis less fuel add the start of the race? Otherwise Lewis is caring 3kg of fuel as ''penalty'' compared to Rosberg.

[markn93]

Spannish GP 2013: 1:39:54.869 Vettel
Spannish GP 2014: 1:41:05.155 Hamilton 1:11 delta.

Not bad for a new Formula. Without blown-diffuser, lowerbeam wing, harder tyres, 30%-35% less fuel, shallower FW and RW. Can't wait for Monza for Spa to see how high the topspeeds will be.

The last 4 races Lewis has consintly used less fuel then Rosberg according to the FIA graphics. When or are they giving Lewis less fuel add the start of the race? Otherwise Lewis is caring 3kg of fuel as ''penalty'' compared to Rosberg.

I think he must start with less. This enables him to have a better start and consolidate track position ahead of Nico, he then has to fuel save slightly more but I think it's a trade-off he's happy with. I know I would be.

[iotar__]

Rosberg:

"There was a misunderstanding from my side because we were going to go prime second stint: there were two variables. There was one where we go prime second stint if we have graining in the first stint or I go prime second stint to try and beat Lewis, if I feel that pace-wise I can be quicker and have a shot at it. I thought they were going prime because they thought I had graining but I didn’t have graining, so that’s why I was confused but then I understood: it was to offset my strategy so that I would have a chance to fight Lewis at the end, so it was fine, and just what I wanted"

? Apart from the fact that Rosberg is happy with strategies and always chooses them even if he doesn't what kind of choice is that between primes and primes (graining or not)? Is it about pitstop timing or should there be option instead? [Against planned strategy?]

OK FI went for varied tyre strategies but differently from Merc, not only because it worked and the car is different (lengths of stints and tyre management) - pitstops right after leading car.
Nico Hulkenberg Medium (17) Medium (19) Hard (29)
Sergio Perez Medium (18) Hard (19) Medium (28)
Lewis Hamilton Medium (18) Medium (25) Hard (23)
Nico Rosberg Medium (21) Hard (24) Medium (21)

Perez after 1st stop -1.677 behind after second -2.375. The question is if pitting for primes in second stint 3 laps later (planned longer stint = bigger gap at the time leading driver pits) and getting marginal chance on the last lap will ever work. I'd say no. Plus stretched second stint (laps that were missing towards the end to overtake) - because strategies are connected end of competition.

[MercedesAMGSpy]

Some people always have something to complain about. Last era Vettel dominated F1, at least now we have an interesting battle between two drivers Hamilton vs Rosberg.

[Edax]

I might be blind for the good racing, so please enlighten me. Vettel from P15 to P4 ---> 2nd fastest car was always gonna land somewhere there given no driver or strategic errors. HAM / ROS --> fighting disabled by always pitting Rosberg too late. With the option tire and 1 lap after Lewis Pit he'd have been first and probably won the race, given Lewis' graining issues even in clean air. Other than that there were some DRS (yippie!) overtakes and some tire difference overtakes. But since the tires are so much more durable this year, even the tire effect does not produce "racing".

Last year around this time there were at least 4 drivers in the hunt for the championship and at least 3 teams for WCC. This year it's basically fixed.

I do watch a lot of other stuff, as mentioned above. But F1 was always part of that portfolio. In recent years my addiction has dropped massively, but this year is the icing on the cake.

Well for one you should be glad Mercedes only brought two cars to the race, it used to be a lot worse .

GP Argentina 1955
1 12 Stirling Moss Mercedes 90 3:07:21.2
2 10 Juan Manuel Fangio Mercedes 90 +0.2
3 14 Karl Kling Mercedes 90 +1:11.8
4 50 Piero Taruffi Mercedes 89 +1 Lap
5 4 Luigi Musso Maserati 89 +1 Lap

About the the pit stop strategy. First stint Hamilton gained about 3.5 seconds, but he burned through his mediums 3 laps earlier than Rosberg. Second stint Rosberg on hards could keep up with Hamilton on mediums. But at the expense of his tyres; after 23 laps the Hards of Rosberg were gone, while Hamilton still had good pace on the Mediums after 25 laps. Finally they did 23/21 laps on the hards resp mediums.

I think it is part calculation on Hamilton side, overuse the first set to create a gap, pace the second set to keep the running on hards limited. Where it went wrong is when he didn't really get the Hards working for him.

If Rosberg had pitted earlier like you suggest then he would have to an even longer stint on the mediums, mount an overtake and defend to the finish. Whatever tyre advantage he had left now at the end of the race, surely would have disappeared by then.

[Pierce89]

Kimi was good this weekend =D> =D> , never seen so emotional. Alonso has started his crying...

When did he cry and if you do a little bit research you would know that Alonso have been the faster driver the entire race. He beat him fair and sqaure.

I hardly think so. If they were on the same strategy Alonso would have ended up like Rosberg did to Hamilton. Especially, if Raikkonen pitted first during the pitstops and took the advantage of the undercut which he should have been as the track position dictated. Ferrari clearly favors Alonso.

So, when have Ferrari ever claimed to have the policy of driver in front gets first stop? Do you think Kim i went into this blind? As a Ferrari fan first and foremost, I've always gotten a kick out fans of driver X complaining that Ferrari favors driver Y. Ferrari has always favored a driver and probably always will.