What can be done to make the engine louder?

[lebesset]

F1 sound is a trademark of the sport. I go to races because of the spectacle and the noise is fundemtally apart of that. So when I hear people say it should be quieter because of health and safety reasons. Part of me dies inside. Honestly, how can you call yourself a motor racing fan? Wear ear plugs, deal with it.

Bernie wants it to be louder which means it's going to happen but how?, the question was how should we maker it louder? Not should we make it louder? It isn't a debate, it should be a constructive discussion of ideas of how they can be made louder. I don't know how, but I would be interested like the OP on how.

so you want it louder so you can wear earplugs ?
so don't wear earplugs and it will be as loud as before , simple solution

[Gaz.]

Oooor... by the end of the season most people will stop moaning and they won't change anything. Personally I don't have issues with the noise of the engines.

What about race promoters who are reliant on "the spectacle" for the foot participants buying tickets? The promoter of Australian GP has already made some statements and we are just beginning our season.

If the tickets stop selling, the venues will be gone. It is theoretically possible to hold a race at an empty track just for the benefit of TV viewers. In such scenario, the F1 would then have to start paying the track owners. I just don't see it.

Somoene correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the attendance figures have been falling in many venues even before the introduction of V6s. For example we had a situation last year with Vettel dominating half of the season. It lowered interest in F1 too and viewership figures fell as well. Race-processions and one-man domination (in one word - uncompetetiveness) is far more important to attendance than noise. Because that's what racing is about - actual competing which creates the spectacle. We need more of that. More equally strong teams. And not digging at superficial 'issues' such as noise.

I personally hated the V8s. Last two good sounding engines for me were the Mercedes V10 from 2001 and the Ferrari V12 from 1995.

Some tracks have falling attendance, others are static because there's a natural limit of how many people want to turn up and others have sell out crowds every year. It doesn't help that different circuits release their figures in different ways & measures. Some like Canada & Hungary release their weekend attendance (both increased in 2013 over 2012 by 20k each) others do race day only (Abu Dhabi 50k since 2010, they upped the capacity from 45k). Some do nearest 10 thousand, others to the nearest 5k, nearest thousand, to the nearest 100 and the odd one or two actually count how many people walk through their gates (America, Britain). Suzuka only count grandstand attendance but not GA. Others treat attendance like a state secret (China, Malaysia, Belgium, Germany). Monaco is a rule unto itself and takes estimates from the local police force. Singapore is a strange one, no official figures (although in their advertising they did guess at 125k for 2013) for the race although they'll tell you that 70,000 people saw Rihanna after the race in 2012. The other thing is the Singapore tourist board reported an extra 300,000 people on the island on the GP weekend, one assumes that is 100k over three days = 300k or whatever combination to make 300,000 visitors.

I always find it odd that FOM do not release attendance figures like the English Premier League or the NFL do and leave it to people to ask the circuits, the promoters, the local police, the tourist board or international & local publications and in some cases the title sponsors of the event.

[strad]

We have some highly complex solutions within the exhaust system," said Wolff, "and also one like a 'megaphone' that simply opens up at the end -- with all the problems that brings with it," said Wolff.

OK you know it alls..What problems that brings with it??
Every Triumph,,Royal Enfield..BSA etc back in the day ran megaphone exhausts..I never noticed a problem.

[Thunder]

hmm first and foremost it would be forbidden by the Rules as of Today (which will be then adjusted) and will have an effect on at least the Monkey Seats the Teams run so there will be some Aero tweaks needed.

[Andres125sx]

F1 sound is a trademark of the sport. I go to races because of the spectacle and the noise is fundemtally apart of that. So when I hear people say it should be quieter because of health and safety reasons. Part of me dies inside. Honestly, how can you call yourself a motor racing fan? Wear ear plugs, deal with it.

Exactly the same I usually think, but because of the opposite...

If sound will change your view about racing, how can you call yourself a motor racing fan?


I found a lot more dramatic the sound change when 125cc become Moto3, that´s an ugly noise, much more than current F1 sound, my lawnmower sounds much better than any moto3 gp bike

But the racing is as good as before, still the most competitive category, so I continue watching


But F1.... It´s the sixth consecutive year everybody knows what team will win, and 95% what driver will win..... 6 years without real competition!! . This is killing F1, but people complain about the sound...


Imagine we have a competition with the ugliest noise you can find but with nonstop battels, or a cometition with v12 sounds and no competition at all.... what of them would you watch?



Noise is not the problem, it has never been. IMHO you guys who complain about the sound can´t see the forest for the trees, F1 has serious problems, but sound is not one of them

[Phil]

Just because F1 has problems, doesn't eliminate that there are other issues that should not be ignored as well.

The cities and racetracks holding the races at a huge expense are the ones that are concerned about the noise. If the spectacle doesn't deliever, it's likely less people will attend races which in turn will make it more difficult to hold the race a further year. I've only attended 2 races so far (Melbourne and Spa) and watching the races on TV, I have no issue with the sound at all. In fact, I like the science-fiction type noise these engines generate. At the thought of spending upwards of a 1000€ (race + drive/fuel + hotel) to attend one of these races, I think I care a little about how much of a "spectacle" is delievered.

Don't forget - when you're at the track - you don't have the luxory of getting a big screen to see the exciting racing. You get, in most cases, a very small window of a very large track. The sound is what carries much of the spectacle and fuels the atmosphere. If you take that away, the whole event becomes quite dull.

As I said - my first race - Melbourne 2011 - hearing the F1 from the center of the city while they were doing practice which is a few kilometers away from Albert Park was quite exciting. Then being at the track - when you get the full scope of the noise, it's just overwhelming. I wouldn't expect anyone who hasn't been live to one of these races to actually understand this. Simply watching it through TV, you simply wouldn't understand.

I've heard from friends who have been to the 2014 Melbourne grandprix that the Touring V8s before the F1 events were significantly louder than the F1 cars are.

I don't think anyones saying that the cars need to be hear-deafning like the V8s pre-2014 were - but I think it is clear that they need to be louder than they are now.

[MOWOG]

Well stated, Phil. Pretty much mirrors my own thoughts on the matter. =D>

[SGeorge]

The engines sound like they are revving significantly lower than they are (on TV anyway) and coupled with the Turbo the effect is muted.

Whilst this has no bearing on F1 - I drive an S2000 Honda, which revs to 9k - and that sounds like war at those revs, whilst an F1 car is seemingly lower in tone and less manic, despite revving higher by a considerable margin - even at the 11k range.

My point is the engine makes some sound, and it could be a case of changing the rules to adjust the parameters here, be it Bore / Stroke or some such to ensure a different sound.

The exhaust is always going to be muted with the turbo, but the engine can be more manic with some changes surely?

P.s - I am clearly no engineer, i would just like to hear some good sounds again!

[mrluke]

And I don't see how a taper on the exhaust pipe like a megaphone would increase sound volume either.

I cant think of a good reason for it not to work? Admittedly i'm not sure how effective it would be.

I assume if it made the cars louder without robbing energy from the PU you'd have violated the laws of thermodynamics, and we respect those in this house

http://www.inautonews.com/mercedes-to-t ... 2tw1PldWyQ

“The solutions range from very complex solutions within the exhaust system down to a simple megaphone at the back,” Wolff is quoted by Kolner Express newspaper.

Germany’s Bild newspaper claims that Mercedes’ plan is actually to test the ‘megaphone’ exhaust during free practice for the Spanish grand prix on Friday.

So after assertions that a megaphone wont make it any louder, and if it did it would do so at the expense of engine power, it will be interesting to see how Mercedes get on.


I think half the problem is that the engines sound fairly unstressed and really should review their sound engineer / microphone setup, these cars are still many times louder than a jet taking off so no reason for them to sound like prius's on the tele.

[FW17]

Is this ferrari with a megaphone exhaust

Old


@spain

[FrukostScones]

I would say yes, as spain version looks different and a bit megaphoney.

[Thunder]

Hmm i thought so too when i first saw that Picture but dismissed it. Seeing the Comparsion now it really looks like a new Exhaust.
That's one manly Pipe.

Edit: That Picture makes it a little more obvious...

[FrukostScones]

this! is just sad. (i hoped the drawings were a joke...but it's real.)

[machin]

Do you guys think they'll introduce a rule that says if your car isn't reaching some dB level (as picked up by microphones in the spectator areas) that you'll get a drive through or stop-go penalty?



Some people hate DRS, but this is the biggest gimmick of them all.

[mantikos]

http://twitter.com/MercedesAMGF1/status ... 4491452416
Why they chose a simple funnel-shaped, but not curved shape of the megaphone?
Like this:
http://www.onemetal.com/wp-content/uplo ... aphone.jpg

Due to significant backpressure loss is my guess - the megaphone type exhausts are used to draw heat out of the engine and exhaust as well as reduce backpressure when used on motorcycles...so I assuming that would negatively impact engine performance.