Red Bull RB10 Renault

[RZS10]

Is it the nose we saw some GPs ago? Don't have the time to go through the thread -.-

[daveyrace]

The nose looks the same, to me. They have just removed the camera housing, which is why it appears slimmer where the camera pods are mounted.
I have overlaid the old camera nose(in colour) onto the new(black and white), hopefully you will be able to see that the camera pods are inline with old camera hump. The camera hump took up quite a large space.

[Blackout]

Got a bigger version of this?

[henra]

I have overlaid the old camera nose(in colour) onto the new(black and white), hopefully you will be able to see that the camera pods are inline with old camera hump. The camera hump took up quite a large space.
http://i.imgur.com/eX3Djxi.jpg

Interesting!
looking at that comparison, I am not 100% convinced their solution really gave them an advantage.
Inversely I don't think the new arrangement will really hurt them.
And asthetically it looks much nicer this way. =D>
Anyway this is probably a rather insignificant area of development. Looking at the Merc's sidepods compared to the RB's I think it's the packaging at the rear that counts.
The pecking order Chassis- wise seems to be related to the tightness/smoothness in that area. Merc -> RBR -> the rest.

[gandharva]

Anyway this is probably a rather insignificant area of development.

A much cleaner airflow is always a benefit. But if rumors are true, we will see a complete new frontend (nose) in Canada.

Looking at the Merc's sidepods compared to the RB's I think it's the packaging at the rear that counts.
The pecking order Chassis- wise seems to be related to the tightness/smoothness in that area. Merc -> RBR -> the rest.

Ah, that's why Mercedes copied the air outlets from RBR I guess...
If anything they are on par, but measurements show that the Red Bull is still the fastest car in corners.

[henra]

Ah, that's why Mercedes copied the air outlets from RBR I guess...
If anything they are on par, but measurements show that the Red Bull is still the fastest car in corners.

The rear end of the Merc now has a similar shape as the RB10. Also the silhouette from above seems pretty identical, but the Merc has a more pronounced undercut. If you would measure the volume of the sidepods and the free volume in front of the tyres I tend to think that the Merc would have less volume of the sidepods and slightly more free volume in front of the rear tyres. It seems the Renault engine has completely lost its packaging Advantage and are now behind Merc (On top of the dramatically missing HP).
Aerodynamic performance of the two cars is difficult to judge based on the past few races and given the drivetrain woes of RB but generally I would say they are not too far from each other. After Spain I have somewhat revised my personal feeling that the RB might be slightly superior in that regard. At the moment I would tend to think that the W05 might be slightly better regarding DF. The fact that they seem much closer to the Merc on an un-aero circuit like Monaco than they were in Barcelona seems to support this.

[turbof1]

Just an aside about blowing the topside of monkey seat. The exhaust stream is high velocity and low pressure but if blown on top of a monkey seat it would stagnate and form fairly high pressure. You can't blow a stream of low pressure only a stream of gas and it's pressure doesn't stay low once it slows.

That's correct, though the "exit" velocity will still be fairly high. Slower, but it's nothing like high pressure flow being blown on it. It's still going to induce lift.

Do note though we are talking about very tiny effects. Since the exhaust pipe can't be directed on the lower winglet, the gasses will actually be largely influenced by the high pressure air going over the winglet. So all the effects mentioned are small: it'll create only a tiny bit of lift, it'll bend only slightly higher, pressure will only rise slightly, etc. The monkey seat is more significant, both in it's advantages and disadvantage. Hence why red bull are running both solution in tandem.

[gandharva]

Also the silhouette from above seems pretty identical, but the Merc has a more pronounced undercut.

I terms of backend undercut (below the widened air outlets) I have to disagree. Explanation is simple: Mercs exhaust sits to low down to efficently free more space in that area. The RBR undercut is formed like a spearhead pointing backwards.

If you would measure the volume of the sidepods and the free volume in front of the tyres I tend to think that the Merc would have less volume of the sidepods and slightly more free volume in front of the rear tyres. It seems the Renault engine has completely lost its packaging Advantage and are now behind Merc (On top of the dramatically missing HP).

Here I fully agree. RBR sidepods are wider due to way more cooling area that has been packaged. But this could even be a advantage in the future when Renault finally reaches 100% with it's engine. Better cooling = more effecient engine. But that's a lot of speculation here...

The fact that they seem much closer to the Merc on an un-aero circuit like Monaco than they were in Barcelona seems to support this.

Imo this just shows that Red Bull has very good traction. But this is something they always had in the last years. And we need to wait for quali on Saturday...

[Emerson.F]

Can anybody clear up what the hole at teh start of the turning vanes is for? Ventilation?

[timbo]

Partly ventilation, partly feeding S-duct that exits at the end of the nosecone reducing turbulence there.

[marcush.]

Efficiency in Terms of cooling is not cooling capacity available .so the bigger package hints at either a less efficient cooling package for RedBull or and a powertrain producing more waste heat for each HP produced to propel the car-no?
it Looks like Renault has not the most powerful PU combined with more waste heat produced.considering they had massive cooling issues at the start of the track development cycle and looking at the sheer volume of the package one wonders if RedBull reiceived something a lot less efficient than promised by their engine partner...

[turbof1]

Efficiency in Terms of cooling is not cooling capacity available .so the bigger package hints at either a less efficient cooling package for RedBull or and a powertrain producing more waste heat for each HP produced to propel the car-no?
it Looks like Renault has not the most powerful PU combined with more waste heat produced.considering they had massive cooling issues at the start of the track development cycle and looking at the sheer volume of the package one wonders if RedBull reiceived something a lot less efficient than promised by their engine partner...

I think it's more down to Newey's radical package approach. Red Bull was the only renault who had to cut holes in the sidepods during testing.

[gandharva]

Efficiency in Terms of cooling is not cooling capacity available .so the bigger package hints at either a less efficient cooling package for RedBull or and a powertrain producing more waste heat for each HP produced to propel the car-no?
it Looks like Renault has not the most powerful PU combined with more waste heat produced.considering they had massive cooling issues at the start of the track development cycle and looking at the sheer volume of the package one wonders if RedBull reiceived something a lot less efficient than promised by their engine partner...

That's simply a worst case assumption. And btw., no one was talking about cooling efficency! To draw final conclusions we should at least wait until Renault says anything like: "we are at 100% now."

[Blackout]

The RBR sidepod volume is big because it's using big air to air intercoolers (unlike Merc and Ferrari) which are located vary backward in the sidepods with a very closed angle and that reject their hot air at he top... The RB10 air sidepod intakes are small and the outlets are tiny.
Every Renault team is using different cooling solutions and aero phylosophies so it's difficult compare them. But if RBR have opted for an air-water intercooler like Lotus for example, it would have much lower/smaller sidepods...
RBR also didnt maufacure all of its engine rads in Milton keynes for the beginning of this season. They lacked time with the RB10 it seems...

[gandharva]

Red Bull has never built their radiators in-house. They are built by PWR since years.

http://www.pwr.com.au/