Vettel vs Ricciardo 2014

djos · Post 26 May 2014, 01:03

beelsebob wrote: Jean Eric Vergne is also a great driver, able to match Ricciardo, Schumacher and Senna

Not sure why you are bringing JEV into this, Riccardo wiped the floor with him in 2013 and was consistently faster in 2012 too, he just had a little in-race maturing to do.

LionKing · Post 26 May 2014, 01:42

ringo wrote:Vettel is being beaten consistently.
He finally has a half decent teammate and after this many races, i think it's fair we re-evaluate where he is on the top driver list. Riciardo is good, but i don't think he's one of the top drawer guys just yet, judging from his time with Vergne. So i'll have to put Vettel down for now, and if Seb has better luck and is able to show what he can do with the RB10 maybe i'll think otherwise. But as it stands Danielle is the #1 driver.

After being beaten by a driver like Button over 3 years at McLaren and failed the finished better than P4 in WDC with the cars he had, I kind of had the same opinion for Hamilton...

djos · Post 26 May 2014, 01:55

LionKing wrote: After being beaten by a driver like Button over 3 years at McLaren and failed the finished better than P4 in WDC with the cars he had, I kind of had the same opinion for Hamilton...

I put that down to the old saying "better lucky than good".

Jenson seems to be great at getting a decent car and developing it into a bad one, Maclaren need to bin him and get someone with some decent development skills and an ability to drive an imperfect car.

FoxHound · Post 26 May 2014, 02:27

LionKing wrote: After being beaten by a driver like Button over 3 years at McLaren

Factually incorrect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Formula_One_season
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Formula_One_season
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Formula_One_season

PlatinumZealot · Post 26 May 2014, 04:19

CHT wrote:Last season the talk was about vettel getting the best equipment that's why webber car keep breaking down. Now the talk is that vettel is a car breaker?

Yes, he could get away with rough handling inth the V8 regs; stomp on the throttle for more down-force after corner entry to corner exit, but know when he stomps on the loud pedal he gets a blown ERS. The new cars are so delicate you can't just mash the gas pedal and ring off the limiter anytime you want.

And yes, pressing the "Destroy Number 2 Car" button on his steering wheel doesn't seem to be working as it should this year...
or is it?!

Vettel Maggot · Post 26 May 2014, 04:22

Time for Vettel to be the clear number 2 driver and for the team to focus on Ricciardo. That is where the future is. If he didn't lose his 2nd in Melbourne he would be a clear 3rd in the WDC, real shame they DSQ him.

beelsebob · Post 26 May 2014, 05:06

djos wrote:
beelsebob wrote: Jean Eric Vergne is also a great driver, able to match Ricciardo, Schumacher and Senna
Not sure why you are bringing JEV into this, Riccardo wiped the floor with him in 2013 and was consistently faster in 2012 too, he just had a little in-race maturing to do.

I'm bringing JEV into this because he was closer to Ricciardo than Vettel is this year. And because the majority of this forum felt that actually JEV was the superior driver between the two (even though the bosses deffinately saw something in Ricciardo that people here weren't seeing).

However, even if you ignore JEV, still, the idea that RedBull have stumbled upon two of the greatest drivers in F1 history in the space of 7 years is a fairly extreme idea compared to the idea that maybe, just maybe, Vettel was not quite as good as he's been made out to be.

djos · Post 26 May 2014, 05:07

I completely agree with your last point but not your 1st one.

In 2013 JEV rarely qualified inside the top 10, was beaten 15-4 with an avg gap of more than 1 second, and had only 3 points scoring races compared to Dan's 7 - it was a total whitewash!

Vettel Maggot · Post 26 May 2014, 05:37

I don't understand the JEV love either, he got blown away. Now he is getting destroyed by a rookie.

zeph · Post 26 May 2014, 08:06

Vettel is obviously not as comfy with the new car as Ricciardo is, but he also has had his share of bad luck this season. Frankly, that was long overdue, but to dismiss him now as average is ludicrous. He is a 4-time world champion.

Yeah, I know, Adrian Newey, bla bla bla, but still, he rose to the occasion and did not put a foot wrong in 2011-2013.

However, I do enjoy seeing him getting his ass handed to him.

George-Jung · Post 26 May 2014, 10:38

I do feel sorry for Vettel, it is just not funny anymore..
But on the other hand, I am glad that Schumacher's 5 WDC titels in a row record will stay with him for the near foreseeable future.

djos · Post 26 May 2014, 11:02

Cam wrote:
George-Jung wrote:I do feel sorry for Vettel, it is just not funny anymore..
But on the other hand, I am glad that Schumacher's 5 WDC titels in a row record will stay with him for the near foreseeable future.
Yeah, because the car had nothing to do with that.

Or Factory engine or custom Bridgestone ties.

George-Jung · Post 26 May 2014, 12:08

Cam wrote: Now do that 4 times straight. It's freakish.

You are completely right, now consider doing it 5 times straight..

FoxHound · Post 26 May 2014, 13:31

Why not look at MSC's record in it's entirety? He is revered as one of the greatest for good reason.
In 1996 he won 3 times in a dog of a Ferrari. In 1997 he pushed the Newey penned Williams right down to the final race....literally

. In a car not anywhere near the equal of the Newey penned Williams.
In 1998 he pushed Hakkinen to the last race, despite not having a Newey penned McLaren.
His Benenton WDC's where even more impressive for me. Some absolute insane drives by him, which was in the face of better machinery.

There is no parrellel to Vettel.

Vettel is the benefactor of Newey Genius. This is undeniable.
And Seb uses it very well. Again, undeniable.

I will make a football comparison so as you can see more clearly what my view is. Ruud Van Nistelrooy scored a ton of goals for Manchester United. His European record was immense. He scored something like 60 goals at the same or higher ratio than Messi and Ronaldo.
He was an accumulator of goals. But he would be near anonymous when the team didn't perform.

Now you look at Messi or Ronaldo. When those chips are down, these guys come up with the goods more often than not. They create something, by force of will, skill, or by luck or whatever.....something happens.
By looking at how things have been won, accounting for all the factors, Ronaldo and Messi are on a completely different planet to Mr Van Nistelrooy. And that is not a slight on the guy as his record was fantastic.

Similarly, Vettel has a superior record to Senna. He has a better record than any of his current contemporaries.
Yet why is he not revered as highly as Alonso, or Hamilton?

Post 26 May 2014, 13:34

Now you look at Messi or Ronaldo. When those chips are down, these guys come up with the goods more often than not. They create something, by force of will, skill, or by luck or whatever.....something happens.
By looking at how things have been won, accounting for all the factors, Ronaldo and Messi are on a completely different planet to Mr Van Nistelrooy. And that is not a slight on the guy as his record was fantastic.

Meh. This season Ronaldo and especially Messi underperformed. Imo in terms of visual performance they got Zlatan'd.

Vettel looks at the moment like Messi: not finding his comfort zone. I still have to see one single driver comparable to Ibrahimovic this season. Alonso in 2012 came close.