Monaco 2014 - Hamilton wanted immediate pitstop

[Rodzilla]

So did button lose out by pitting straight away?

no because the people around him also had to do a full lap with the delta time so he was fine

[hollus]

Nice analysis using times and logic, guys.
But aren't we getting answers to the wrong question, especially Lewis? Either he is willing to follow the team's wishes or he isn't. If he is, they called to give Rosberg (the driver ahead) priority, which probably reflects rules of engagement accepted by all parties involved.
If he is not willing to follow the team's wishes, then he was behind in track, meaning that he had the chance to physically duck in to the pits after Rosberg had passed them. In that case (and with all the time he imagines gaining), the mechanics would have gotten tires ready for him, which even if cold, would do fine once the safety car was out. And (with the time gain he is imagining) he would likely have won the race. And he would have had 2007 all over again.

So Hamilton is asking whether he could have won the race. I think he should be asking whether he wanted to win the race like this. Because if pitting had been the right call, then the team would have wanted it to make the right call, but for Rosberg.

[iotar__]

Not Hamilton gain. Strategy talk in Monaco on a one-stopper with safety car and two team mates is short. Leading driver pits first, anything else is a sabotage against him.

The thing that bothers me is I think LH can't be that detached from reality to expect anything else, if it was emotional, fine but the fact that he kept talking on and on makes me think it was calculated whining to create media controversy and picture himself as a driver disadvantaged by a team which is of course ridiculous. Prepared strategy to stir controversy out of nothing. It was Rosberg who had more reasons to talk about strategy after Spain. McLaren in 2007 must have been a nice place for a second driver.

[CHT]

Not Hamilton gain. Strategy talk in Monaco on a one-stopper with safety car and two team mates is short. Leading driver pits first, anything else is a sabotage against him.

The thing that bothers me is I think LH can't be that detached from reality to expect anything else, if it was emotional, fine but the fact that he kept talking on and on makes me think it was calculated whining to create media controversy and picture himself as a driver disadvantaged by a team which is of course ridiculous. Prepared strategy to stir controversy out of nothing. It was Rosberg who had more reasons to talk about strategy after Spain. McLaren in 2007 must have been a nice place for a second driver.

LH did make comparison about race strategist at Merc vs Mclaren. At Mclaren, I think he mention the team have 1 dedicated race strategist for himself, while Merc has got 1 race strategist for both drivers.

[dave34m]

"In conclusion lewis isnt smart and should leave the tactics to others"

Well I guess that's the difference between a spur of the moment call that has to be decided in 20 seconds max, and having a full day to come up with a counter argument that it was better to stay out after all.

trust me he doesnt understand the situation, even after the race he was going on about it and he probably still feels the team kept him down

a professional driver should know that an undercut wouldnt work if he has to drive slowly on his outlap lol, hopefully someone from the team explains it to him

Oh guys you are so smart, analysing everything in hindsight. I understand his questions, it was his only chance to try something to pass Rosberg. Now they did nothing and he couldn't do anything.

As Lauda said, the lead driver has the first pit stop, everyone knows this, Lewis didnt have the option to stop frist. Really thats the end of it. Lewis can whine away all he wants, those are the team rules.

[Steven]

I'm not entirely sure what are the rules for pitstops within the Mercedes team, but it seems to me that they should leave slightly more room for the drivers to decide on their stops. I also don't know if Nico was asking for a stop at the same time as Lewis was, but if not, why would they not allow Lewis to come in when he wanted to.
If it turned out badly, he would only have to blame himself and think twice next time around. If it worked, then he'd be happy and willing to make more pitcalls himself.

Again, we don't know how it's arranged, and with a single strategist, it may be that they are always consulting the lead driver when the other one wants to pit, although to me that would seem like overhead at times where time is exactly the limiting factor.

[SpainFAN]

I don't give too much thought of Luis getting hot about coming in right away or not since you have to understand the demeanour of the driver at that moment, his focus is on taking advantage and with a hot head in the heat of things him or anyone else could get into that mind set... it has happen to Shummy and choosing wrong tires (2006) it has happen to Rai, to Nagel, to Senna, to Alonso, when a driver is in the zone, your wager on taking risks higher.

It's too easy to look at it all in retrospect and see where one was thinking on direction and that could have been seen as en error, it's very difficult to do that 100% when you are flying in a F1. My hats off to all the driver for trying ways to get a win, I'd rather watch that then a complacent driver with just a better car than the rest.

BTW, who got the most on track overtaking in Monaco in the last race?

[Richard]

As I see it, Merc follow the tradition of the leading diver having first call on pit stops. Hamilton has benefited from that to land 4 race wins. This time it was the other way around.

In addition, it appears that stopping before the SC would have disadvantaged him anyway.

So on both counts the right scenario was followed.

[dans79]

As I see it, Merc follow the tradition of the leading diver having first call on pit stops. Hamilton has benefited from that to land 4 race wins. This time it was the other way around.

In addition, it appears that stopping before the SC would have disadvantaged him anyway.

So on both counts the right scenario was followed.

The way I read it was slightly different. It sounds like the first driver pits first no matter what, that's slightly different, than first call. Basically pit stops can't happen till the first driver wants to pit.

[thomin]

As I see it, Merc follow the tradition of the leading diver having first call on pit stops. Hamilton has benefited from that to land 4 race wins. This time it was the other way around.

In addition, it appears that stopping before the SC would have disadvantaged him anyway.

So on both counts the right scenario was followed.

The way I read it was slightly different. It sounds like the first driver pits first no matter what, that's slightly different, than first call. Basically pit stops can't happen till the first driver wants to pit.

While this is how it has been relayed though the media, it doesn't make much sense. I interpret it as the driver in front having first rights. So if the driver in the back wants to stop, the other half of the garage gets the chance to pit first if they want to.

[elf341]

The intersting thing for me is whether when running 2nd in the future, Lewis will come in the pit when *he* pleases.
Toto Wolff was questioned about this post monoco, and he seemed to imply that if Lewis did that they would not service the car, since it is the team that decides these calls not the driver. Obviously this choice would be damage the team in terms of points, so perhaps Lewis will bet that they change his tires anyway.

[dans79]

The intersting thing for me is whether when running 2nd in the future, Lewis will come in the pit when *he* pleases.
Toto Wolff was questioned about this post monoco, and he seemed to imply that if Lewis did that they would not service the car, since it is the team that decides these calls not the driver. Obviously this choice would be damage the team in terms of points, so perhaps Lewis will bet that they change his tires anyway.

Is it just me or does Wolff seem like an uber control freak?

[siskue2005]

Toto Wolff was questioned about this post monoco, and he seemed to imply that if Lewis did that they would not service the car,

Source?

[Phil]

Nice analysis using times and logic, guys.
But aren't we getting answers to the wrong question, especially Lewis? Either he is willing to follow the team's wishes or he isn't. If he is, they called to give Rosberg (the driver ahead) priority, which probably reflects rules of engagement accepted by all parties involved.
If he is not willing to follow the team's wishes, then he was behind in track, meaning that he had the chance to physically duck in to the pits after Rosberg had passed them. In that case (and with all the time he imagines gaining), the mechanics would have gotten tires ready for him, which even if cold, would do fine once the safety car was out. And (with the time gain he is imagining) he would likely have won the race. And he would have had 2007 all over again.

So Hamilton is asking whether he could have won the race. I think he should be asking whether he wanted to win the race like this. Because if pitting had been the right call, then the team would have wanted it to make the right call, but for Rosberg.

That's a good point. I think we are however missing something. From my impression, it wasn't necessarely about "winning the race by doing an undercut" - in fact, I personally think the undercut was non-existant at Monaco, hence why I'm disappointed the safety car ruined what could possibly been a chance for Lewis to get ahead under normal pitting circumstances - but because he wanted to avoid the scenario he had last year when the safety car made him lose places to Redbull by losing time in the pits.

I think the logic was - "guys, there was an accident - is Nico pitting? If he isn't, bring me in now.". I don't think he was trying to get an first pit over Nico, but wanted to avoid doing an extra lap and then lose time behind his team-mate in the pits. Luckily, the gap between him and Raikkoennen was so big, that even despite the holdup, he didn't lose position. At the same time, he probably was left wondering why Nico didn't pit at the first instance and why the team didn't allow him pitting instead. In hindsight, as the analysis shows, he would have been worse off indeed, so I guess it's a non-issue in the end.

[siskue2005]

Nice analysis using times and logic, guys.
But aren't we getting answers to the wrong question, especially Lewis? Either he is willing to follow the team's wishes or he isn't. If he is, they called to give Rosberg (the driver ahead) priority, which probably reflects rules of engagement accepted by all parties involved.
If he is not willing to follow the team's wishes, then he was behind in track, meaning that he had the chance to physically duck in to the pits after Rosberg had passed them. In that case (and with all the time he imagines gaining), the mechanics would have gotten tires ready for him, which even if cold, would do fine once the safety car was out. And (with the time gain he is imagining) he would likely have won the race. And he would have had 2007 all over again.

So Hamilton is asking whether he could have won the race. I think he should be asking whether he wanted to win the race like this. Because if pitting had been the right call, then the team would have wanted it to make the right call, but for Rosberg.

That's a good point. I think we are however missing something. From my impression, it wasn't necessarely about "winning the race by doing an undercut" - in fact, I personally think the undercut was non-existant at Monaco, hence why I'm disappointed the safety car ruined what could possibly been a chance for Lewis to get ahead under normal pitting circumstances - but because he wanted to avoid the scenario he had last year when the safety car made him lose places to Redbull by losing time in the pits.

I think the logic was - "guys, there was an accident - is Nico pitting? If he isn't, bring me in now.". I don't think he was trying to get an first pit over Nico, but wanted to avoid doing an extra lap and then lose time behind his team-mate in the pits. Luckily, the gap between him and Raikkoennen was so big, that even despite the holdup, he didn't lose position. At the same time, he probably was left wondering why Nico didn't pit at the first instance and why the team didn't allow him pitting instead. In hindsight, as the analysis shows, he would have been worse off indeed, so I guess it's a non-issue in the end.

+1 finally someone else understood what I was saying previously in the thread
If there was a situation of stacking up he would have lost his second place to someone else, like last year
That is why he was so agitated

Here is what I wrote before

Many of you are immediately ready to bash Lewis, just understand what happened

He said he knew there will be a safety car for that crash as they both passed the crashed car....Lewis wanted to pit immediately but they couldn't do it coz Nico gets choice as he is leading
All he is implying is Nico or team didn't call to come into pits immediately as the second time they all stacked up and could have lost lewis second place to Ricardo ...which was pretty much the risk In stacking up (similar to what happened to Schumacher at turkey 2006)