2014 Monaco Grand Prix

[SGeorge]

The Only man who can beat Lewis Hamilton is Lewis Hamilton

spot on

[mnmracer]

2010

Head to Head (LH v JB) - 12 v 7
Retirements (LH vs JB) - 3 v 2
Points (LH vs JB) - 240 v 214

Summary; Lewis finished ahead on 5 more occasions, despite retiring one more time.

2011

Head to Head (LH v JB) - 9 v 10
Retirements (LH vs JB) - 3 v 2
Points (LH vs JB) - 227 v 270

Summary; Jenson edged Hamilton in the head to head, despite this season being Hamilton's worst according to many.

2012

Head to Head (LH v JB) - 11 v 9
Retirements (LH vs JB) - 5 v 2
Points (LH vs JB) - 190 v 188

Summary; Lewis finished ahead of Jenson 11 times to 9, despite retiring 5 times to Button's 2.

Overall

Head to Head (LH v JB) - 32 v 26
Retirements (LH vs JB) - 11 v 6
Points (LH vs JB) - 657 v 672

My comments are biased towards Hamilton to show how easily it is that statistics can be manipulated. The truth about who performed better over 3 years is probably somewhere in the middle of what their head to head stats say and what their overall points say.

In my opinion Hamilton edged it though.

You can't only take retirements and run with that: it undervalues Button in 2010 and Hamilton in 2012.

There's been 3 years, one in which (all things considering) it was relatively close (2010), one in which (atc) Button had the upperhand (2011), and one in which (atc) Hamilton had the upperhand (2012).

Of course the "more points" stat is kinda stupid, but I think it is safe to say that Jenson gave Lewis a lot more trouble than their legacies suggest.

[Pierce89]

Did Button get penalized for taking out Perez? I'm reasonably confident that were the roles reversed, Perez would've been penalized.

[Mandrake]

The Only man who can beat Lewis Hamilton is Lewis Hamilton

spot on

Tbh, in Bahrain and Barcelona, Rosberg was faster on pure pace. In the end Hamilton won due to clever driving. However, since many here claim Hamilton is the fastest thing the world has seen for ages, you should be worried.

[iotar__]

Did Button get penalized for taking out Perez? I'm reasonably confident that were the roles reversed, Perez would've been penalized.

Exactly, I already lamented lack of reaction regarding this incident and double standards. It was fairly clear, there was no way Button was making this corner without collision, he was clearly behind, it was between Maldonado-Gutierrez and Magnussen-Raikkonen kind of incident and closer to the former. No closing the door, no leaving space arguments apply here, It would be like saying Gutierrez didn't leave Maldonado enough space and closed the door in Bahrain.

The Only man who can beat Lewis Hamilton is Lewis Hamilton

spot on

Too often this season he needed all the strategy help from Mercedes to win to say something like that and there are several better racers than Rosberg. Races:
Unknown in Australia
Faster in Malaysia
Slower in Bahrain
Unknown in China
Slower in Barcelona
Monaco - equal/unknown/doesn't matter

[beelsebob]

Too often this season he needed all the strategy help from Mercedes to win to say something like that and there are several better racers than Rosberg. Races:
Unknown in Australia
Faster in Malaysia
Slower in Bahrain
Unknown in China
Slower in Barcelona
Monaco - equal/unknown/doesn't matter

He needed strategy help? He and Rosberg got exactly the same treatment - the first placed driver gets first pick of strategy.

Somehow though this translates into "slower" when it's Hamilton being chased, but "equal" when it's Rosberg being chased.

So far Hamilton has won 4 races out of 5 in which the two have competed. This says everything you need it to.

[MercedesAMGSpy]

Did Button get penalized for taking out Perez? I'm reasonably confident that were the roles reversed, Perez would've been penalized.

Exactly, I already lamented lack of reaction regarding this incident and double standards. It was fairly clear, there was no way Button was making this corner without collision, he was clearly behind, it was between Maldonado-Gutierrez and Magnussen-Raikkonen kind of incident and closer to the former. No closing the door, no leaving space arguments apply here, It would be like saying Gutierrez didn't leave Maldonado enough space and closed the door in Bahrain.

The Only man who can beat Lewis Hamilton is Lewis Hamilton

spot on

Too often this season he needed all the strategy help from Mercedes to win to say something like that and there are several better racers than Rosberg. Races:
Unknown in Australia
Faster in Malaysia
Slower in Bahrain
Unknown in China
Slower in Barcelona
Monaco - equal/unknown/doesn't matter

I guess you don't really know Lewis and Rosberg strongest and weakest tracks. Hamilton never won in Bahrain/Spain before this season and never took pole in Monaco.

Rosberg is very strong in Bahrain, Spain, Monaco and Singapore.
Hamilton beated Rosberg in Bahrain/Spain (Rosberg tracks).
He won in Malaysia/China with quite a margin (tracks he likes).

Tracks coming up: Canada (Hamilton's backyard), Austria (unknown), Silverstone (Lewis home grand prix), Hockenheim (hard to predict), Hungary (Hamilton superb). Of course then we have after the summer break the second part of the season, but my point is, Hamilton won on two ''Rosberg'' tracks (small margin, but it doesn't matter) and lost the battle in Monaco. He won with quite a margin his strong tracks. With Canada, Silverstone and Hungary coming up Rosberg should be worried, especially after his 25p gap after Australia is disappeared.

[SiLo]

It would be a real shame if they keep getting 1-2 in either order, and Rosberg simply wins by a deficit of less than 25 points and he has no retirements. That would be Hamilton pretty much got beaten by a cracked spark plug seal in the first race of the season.

[WaikeCU]

It would be a real shame if they keep getting 1-2 in either order, and Rosberg simply wins by a deficit of less than 25 points and he has no retirements. That would be Hamilton pretty much got beaten by a cracked spark plug seal in the first race of the season.

Surely if they interchange race wins race after race then it will run down to the wire. Remember, last race of the season counts double points. So that means the one who wins the last race (if they continue to dominate the 1-2's) will be crowned WC.

[iotar__]

Too often this season he needed all the strategy help from Mercedes to win to say something like that and there are several better racers than Rosberg. Races:
Unknown in Australia
Faster in Malaysia
Slower in Bahrain
Unknown in China
Slower in Barcelona
Monaco - equal/unknown/doesn't matter

He needed strategy help? He and Rosberg got exactly the same treatment - the first placed driver gets first pick of strategy.

Somehow though this translates into "slower" when it's Hamilton being chased, but "equal" when it's Rosberg being chased.

So far Hamilton has won 4 races out of 5 in which the two have competed. This says everything you need it to.

No, as said many times:
It wasn't "only second choice in pitstop". It was also (both Bahrain and Barcelona) questionable tyre strategy (hard tyres in the second stint) that separates them and give less chance for an overtake (only last laps), SC in Bahrain was an accident. Secondly pitstop timing was far from optimal, when you stay three laps (or two) longer you lose more time, see Force India in Barcelona for something different, pitstop 1 lap after team-mate. Now if you add time lost on hard tyres, later pitstops and boost used by Hamilton in Barcelona the fact that he was caught mid-third stint shows who was in fact faster. Also time lost with slower pace in the first stint ("no graining") and third ("take care of the tyres"). That Rosberg was faster was confirmed by Hamilton himself, same as Bahrain. Other option and sth Rosberg himself mentioned I think was not doing hards but mediums in second stint and try to catch Hamitlon, it did not happen. Another variable.

"Somehow though this translates into "slower" when it's Hamilton being chased, but "equal" when it's Rosberg being chased." I don't know what this refers to, I made no such claim. Only instance of Rosberg leading was Monaco and it's not comparable. in Monaco there's no strategy, leading driver pits first, second lap later or the same if it's SC. Hard to say but there's no evidence Hamilton was faster in Monaco. Gap in the first stint shows something else (or nothing to be fair).

"So far Hamilton has won 4 races out of 5 in which the two have competed. This says everything you need it to." No they did not compete in five race but in four, China = telemetry problems. No, results don't say everything, that's what the discussion is about, how much those wins were aided by Mercedes strategy. The claim was "beatable only by himself" not the case in four races.

[iotar__]

Too often this season he needed all the strategy help from Mercedes to win to say something like that and there are several better racers than Rosberg. Races:
Unknown in Australia
Faster in Malaysia
Slower in Bahrain
Unknown in China
Slower in Barcelona
Monaco - equal/unknown/doesn't matter

I guess you don't really know Lewis and Rosberg strongest and weakest tracks. Hamilton never won in Bahrain/Spain before this season and never took pole in Monaco.

Rosberg is very strong in Bahrain, Spain, Monaco and Singapore.
Hamilton beated Rosberg in Bahrain/Spain (Rosberg tracks).
He won in Malaysia/China with quite a margin (tracks he likes).

Tracks coming up: Canada (Hamilton's backyard), Austria (unknown), Silverstone (Lewis home grand prix), Hockenheim (hard to predict), Hungary (Hamilton superb). Of course then we have after the summer break the second part of the season, but my point is, Hamilton won on two ''Rosberg'' tracks (small margin, but it doesn't matter) and lost the battle in Monaco. He won with quite a margin his strong tracks. With Canada, Silverstone and Hungary coming up Rosberg should be worried, especially after his 25p gap after Australia is disappeared.

The claim was "beatable only by himself" not beatable on some tracks, but fine I can understand that. Disagree about Barcelona being Rosberg's track (50-50) and it works both ways: China could be described advantage Rosberg track and he couldn't compete there, why everyone forgets that? Wet qualifying made comparison less clear, advantage in the wet is statistically less significant. Let's see: Canada - Hamilton, Austria - ? , Silverstone - 50-50, Germany - ? See, it's not that obvious to me, Monaco was 50-50. I don't see many clear Hamilton advantage tracks: except Canada, Singapore - I'm not sure, Rosberg was fine there too, maybe Hungary. All those tracks comparisons are for very different cars and tyres anyway.

[MercedesAMGSpy]

Too often this season he needed all the strategy help from Mercedes to win to say something like that and there are several better racers than Rosberg. Races:
Unknown in Australia
Faster in Malaysia
Slower in Bahrain
Unknown in China
Slower in Barcelona
Monaco - equal/unknown/doesn't matter

I guess you don't really know Lewis and Rosberg strongest and weakest tracks. Hamilton never won in Bahrain/Spain before this season and never took pole in Monaco.

Rosberg is very strong in Bahrain, Spain, Monaco and Singapore.
Hamilton beated Rosberg in Bahrain/Spain (Rosberg tracks).
He won in Malaysia/China with quite a margin (tracks he likes).

Tracks coming up: Canada (Hamilton's backyard), Austria (unknown), Silverstone (Lewis home grand prix), Hockenheim (hard to predict), Hungary (Hamilton superb). Of course then we have after the summer break the second part of the season, but my point is, Hamilton won on two ''Rosberg'' tracks (small margin, but it doesn't matter) and lost the battle in Monaco. He won with quite a margin his strong tracks. With Canada, Silverstone and Hungary coming up Rosberg should be worried, especially after his 25p gap after Australia is disappeared.

The claim was "beatable only by himself" not beatable on some tracks, but fine I can understand that. Disagree about Barcelona being Rosberg's track (50-50) and it works both ways: China could be described advantage Rosberg track and he couldn't compete there, why everyone forgets that? Wet qualifying made comparison less clear, advantage in the wet is statistically less significant. Let's see: Canada - Hamilton, Austria - ? , Silverstone - 50-50, Germany - ? See, it's not that obvious to me, Monaco was 50-50. I don't see many clear Hamilton advantage tracks: except Canada, Singapore - I'm not sure, Rosberg was fine there too, maybe Hungary. All those tracks comparisons are for very different cars and tyres anyway.

Not true, if you follow F1 long enough, you know LH can do something special in Canada/Hungary and Rosberg really likes Monaco and Bahrain.

[turbof1]

Canada could actually go both ways. Just because Hamilton has a good record there doesn't mean Rosberg isn't going to a be threat. Especially that dreaded double and unnecessary DRS zone; Lewis will not be able to pull off another Bahrain if Rosberg stays close enough.

I'd rather say Abu Dhabi is Hamilton's ground. He absolutely kills it every year in the slow sector.

[60DShim]

Canada could actually go both ways. Just because Hamilton has a good record there doesn't mean Rosberg isn't going to a be threat. Especially that dreaded double and unnecessary DRS zone; Lewis will not be able to pull off another Bahrain if Rosberg stays close enough.

I'd rather say Abu Dhabi is Hamilton's ground. He absolutely kills it every year in the slow sector.

If Nico can keep up with Lewis throughout the race I'll be surprised. I think it will be a repeat of China.

[Juzh]

I'd rather say Abu Dhabi is Hamilton's ground. He absolutely kills it every year in the slow sector.

I honestly don't know why this myth is still floating around.