Ferrari F14T

[Bob Brown]

They both are using new bodywork, but Alonso has some adjustments due to him saying he has oversteer.

[F1NAC]

@tgruener: #F1 Ferrari running the old engine cover and floor for rest of Montreal weekend. New parts too risky with higher ambient temperatures.

[mclaren_mircea]

@tgruener: #F1 Ferrari running the old engine cover and floor for rest of Montreal weekend. New parts too risky with higher ambient temperatures.

Higher ambient temperatures or these part of the package is not working as expected?
The heat problems can be just PR for not recognising they are not working as they have expected in the simulator and they don't want to risk until they work longer on them.

[Cuky]

might be PR stuff too, but for me car looked better on track with new parts bolted on...maybe they are expecting lots of DNFs like in Monaco so they want to play it safe and make sure that they don't loose possible points for constructors championship because of technical problems.

[evered7]

How is the ambient temperature high? It's 25*C for heaven's sake.

At least parts didn't work as expected was a transparent enough reason in the past. Now it is murky. So frustrated to see them in 7th and 10th spots.

[zioture]

Alonso is using the old bodywork atm in FP3.

Base on BBC and by the image it is the new bodywork but the area on the back has been cut just before the rear tyre

IT's possible look
Two different version of large Cover Engine

[Pierce89]

@tgruener: #F1 Ferrari running the old engine cover and floor for rest of Montreal weekend. New parts too risky with higher ambient temperatures.

Higher ambient temperatures or these part of the package is not working as expected?
The heat problems can be just PR for not recognising they are not working as they have expected in the simulator and they don't want to risk until they work longer on them.

Go worry abut Mclaren. The car threads aren't the place to invent rumors about more "correlation problems" , when a specific reason for not using the parts is given. That crapola goes in the team threads.

[diffuser]

Anyone with onboard of Alonzo or Kimi during Quali?

[Hail22]

Alonso is using the old bodywork atm in FP3.

Base on BBC and by the image it is the new bodywork but the area on the back has been cut just before the rear tyre

IT's possible look
Two different version of large Cover Enginehttps://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hph ... 1686_n.jpg

If you also look closely...two different types of T-bar cameras (mounted on the roll-hoop)...one with two fins / strake(s) the other a single central strake / fin.

[donskar]

I didn't watch FP2 due to time zone differences.

But I quote BBC's Andrew Benson "Ferrari appear to be the second fastest team - they have taken a package of upgrades to Canada, including aerodynamic revisions among which are a new floor and engine performance improvements.The two drivers shared the development work. Alonso ran the new floor in the first session, when he was 1.34secs clear of Raikkonen, before it was switched to the Finn's car for a comparison in the second session, when Alonso ran an older design."

I hope they have enough of components for both cars to run. Was there any other noticeable differences in FP2?

And the result is . . . 7th and 10th. Sigh.

[max_speed]

i saw qualifying in q3 , flying lap of alonso was better than of bottas, specially in sector1 and sector-2 but in sector-3 he lost .353 seconds . is it fair to assume that low downforce configuration of car was ok and its PU tht let them down. is it fair to assume that PU updates they brought did not work and even though other updates did work we cnt see their real effect bcos PU is inferior.

[bhall]

How is the ambient temperature high? It's 25*C for heaven's sake.

At least parts didn't work as expected was a transparent enough reason in the past. Now it is murky. So frustrated to see them in 7th and 10th spots.

Yeah, they placed 7th and 10th in qualifying, which has rarely been a strong point for Ferrari in recent years, but they're less than 0.3s away from the fastest non-Brackley car and less than 1s away from the masters themselves. Such pace represents a relative improvement of 0.7s and 1.5s, respectively, since Spain. That's huge.

(You can pretty much disregard the Williams cars, too. Their lack of downforce means they were destined to do well in Montreal, and you can expect more of the same in Monza. That doesn't mean it's a better car, though.)

And just to try to swing this around to a more on-topic discussion of the car, it makes sense to take a conservative approach to cooling when you consider that this weekend represents the high-water mark for the PU i.e., it hasn't been pushed this hard all year. At a circuit where aero efficiency isn't especially critical, why take a chance on a slimmer engine cover when the reward wouldn't be that great anyway?


This will be quite useful at Silverstone, though.

[SpainFAN]

And just to try to swing this around to a more on-topic discussion of the car, it makes sense to take a conservative approach to cooling when you consider that this weekend represents the high-water mark for the PU i.e., it hasn't been pushed this hard all year. At a circuit where aero efficiency isn't especially critical, why take a chance on a slimmer engine cover when the reward wouldn't be that great anyway?

ball, I agree with the first part of your post, not calling you out as many keep saying that the PUs have not been run to their fullest, I tend to ponder disbelief when I read such comments, as if the teams themselves have thrown in the towel on the first couple of races... I really hope that this is not the case, unless someone has clear proof to the contrary, I think we are seen outcomes that present themselves as honest excellence/limitations of their own packages.

I still feel that the Ferrari has a serios drag penalty that they are trying to correct. I think they are getting good DF with tier body work, but the drag on the sidepod is keeping them from getting higher top speeds and/or could bee their PU and gearing also but seen the direction they are going in modifying the "coke bottle" neck, leads me to believe that they are still struggling with drag in the straights.

I saw both Kimmy and Alonso put in got 1st and 2nd sector times, also on the las lap for Kimmy he came in very fast in the chicane and you could see lateral drift do to centrifugal force much more in control than the previous races. They also seem to slip a little less on the faster corners but they are lower in power (IMO) and it could be hurting their lap times. So the new package is fixing some of the issues with lateral drift or lack of DF and sidepod "lift" =D> but they still need to work on the top speed. [-o<

[F1T]

Ferrari trial revised bodywork - Development blog

Ferrari have introduced a considerable upgrade package for their F14 T in Montreal, including a new floor and this more apparent new bodywork. Fernando Alonso was seen on track with the new bodywork layout while at the same time Kimi Raikkonen ran with the older configuration, allowing the team to do immediate comparisons in the pitlane and back in Maranello.

The update includes the removal of the air outlet around the exhaust, allowing for sleeker upper bodywork. The tradeoff are slighly larger outlets across the suspension arms, which interestingly extend further back as well, similar to Red Bull's layout and following the change that Mercedes did in Spain as well. Along with the modifications is a different sidepod panel as well with in particular a modified horizontal element.

The problem for Ferrari though is that they have considerable difficulty in determining what works on the car and what doesn't. On Friday evening, Alonso already mentioned that of all the new aerodynamic parts introduced, only the new floor is a certain improvement. This, combined with the knowledge of higher ambient temperatures on Sunday's race, the team opted not to race the new bodywork, instead aiming for another go at the next race.

Also interesting is that Ferrari are back at using their twin pillar rear wing. Both Ferrari's raced with a single pillar mounting and an additional monkey seat in Spain and Monaco but have opted for the old layout again at Montreal.

[bhall]

ball, I agree with the first part of your post, not calling you out as many keep saying that the PUs have not been run to their fullest, I tend to ponder disbelief when I read such comments, as if the teams themselves have thrown in the towel on the first couple of races... I really hope that this is not the case, unless someone has clear proof to the contrary, I think we are seen outcomes that present themselves as honest excellence/limitations of their own packages.

I still feel that the Ferrari has a serios drag penalty that they are trying to correct. I think they are getting good DF with tier body work, but the drag on the sidepod is keeping them from getting higher top speeds and/or could bee their PU and gearing also but seen the direction they are going in modifying the "coke bottle" neck, leads me to believe that they are still struggling with drag in the straights.

I saw both Kimmy and Alonso put in got 1st and 2nd sector times, also on the las lap for Kimmy he came in very fast in the chicane and you could see lateral drift do to centrifugal force much more in control than the previous races. They also seem to slip a little less on the faster corners but they are lower in power (IMO) and it could be hurting their lap times. So the new package is fixing some of the issues with lateral drift or lack of DF and sidepod "lift" =D> but they still need to work on the top speed. [-o<

Technical director James Allison said that while major changes are not permitted owing to the development freeze on the new engines which came into effect before the racing began, it is possible to be more aggressive with settings arrived at during dynamometer testing, and Montreal marks the first time that Fernando Alonso and Kimi Raikkonen will be able to exploit these.

"There is a lot of opportunity to get more horsepower out of the same hardware as you increase your confidence in how hard you can push it,” Allison said.

And think about it: How many times have we heard a radio transmission in which an engineer instructs his driver to "save the engine" at some point during a race? While the scale of the matter is obviously quite different here, the change is fundamentally the same. It's "just" an engine map, albeit one made all the more complicated by everything associated with ERS integration.

Personally, I think Renault and Ferrari's PU woes are the ironic consequence of having to introduce extremely expensive new hardware within a sporting environment that severely restricts testing in order to save money. Doesn't make a whole lotta sense, yanno?

As far as the chassis goes, I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with it. Rather, I don't think we can faithfully conclude the existence of a fault based upon trials we see/perceive as steps taken to correct a fault, if that makes any sense.

Take this rear wing, for instance...



How can we be certain about what it aims to address? It's obviously intended to reduce drag. But, is that because the chassis is draggy, or because poor low-speed traction limits acceleration, and thus, top speed, or maybe it's just the continued evaluation of a solution tested prior to the season? All are valid possibilities in spite of their disparate nature.

That's my take on the matter, anyway. I've been wrong before...