2014 Canadian Grand Prix - Montreal

[Mandrake]

They have a 5 second Pitstop penalty available have they? But this was still too much.

In the DTM they have a penalty where you have to slowdown by 2 seconds vs your normal laptime after you have cut somewhere. They could integrate something like that. But in the DTM this does not lead to passing, because drivers slow down in chicanes so much, that the driver behind has to really brake and cannot get by.

He gained a couple of tenths advantage, true, but that was not the reason why Hamilton could not pass. He got a warning which is fair. Afterwards he never cut anything again. 1 lap after Hamilton was in DRS range again.

[astracrazy]

In this instance I feel Rosberg probably should have had 1 second added to his final race time

I totally see your point but i hate the idea of that. The driver is able to keep in play during the race and other variables could mean that would have no effect by the end, where if that was added to a pitstop or something it would effect the race a little better being less in favour of the driver in question.

They have a 5 second Pitstop penalty available have they? But this was still too much.

In the DTM they have a penalty where you have to slowdown by 2 seconds vs your normal laptime after you have cut somewhere. They could integrate something like that. But in the DTM this does not lead to passing, because drivers slow down in chicanes so much, that the driver behind has to really brake and cannot get by.

He gained a couple of tenths advantage, true, but that was not the reason why Hamilton could not pass. He got a warning which is fair. Afterwards he never cut anything again. 1 lap after Hamilton was in DRS range again.

Yes 5 secs is too much which is prob why he only got a warning

[MuseF1]

Perez's braking was utterly irrelevant, he moved off the racing line as Massa tried to dive down the inside and caused the accident - it's pretty clear cut from all the footage and clearly it was to the stewards too!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUEbC1bf2sc I have not seen it on this angle but now I have. It does tell a different story.

https://scontent-a-fra.xx.fbcdn.net/hph ... 3930_n.jpg

This is an inaccurate image to analyse. They have already made contact, which means that Perez car is pivoting around Massa's, and so the direction of travel isn't correct.

[basti313]

This is an inaccurate image to analyse. They have already made contact, which means that Perez car is pivoting around Massa's, and so the direction of travel isn't correct.

Can you provide a better picture? It shows what occured and what was punished: Perez (like often) was moving under braking. This is a NOGO.

[MuseF1]

This is an inaccurate image to analyse. They have already made contact, which means that Perez car is pivoting around Massa's, and so the direction of travel isn't correct.

Can you provide a better picture? It shows what occured and what was punished: Perez (like often) was moving under braking. This is a NOGO.

It shows what occured innacurately. In that image you can't say how much of the travel direction is due to Perez desired line or how much is due to contact occuring. I think being on a site that focuses on the technical aspect of F1 this should be obvious.

I can however provide a much better visual representation of what happened, that I just found on reddit.com. Posted by /u/d3agl3uk in /r/formula1 , Thread link: http://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/commen ... n_make_of/

[RZS10]

watch the distance of the lines to the track limit on the right...massa and vettel follow the tracks' curvature as you'd normally do, perez does not ... the pic above this post explains it well

[60DShim]

http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1413 ... _perez.gif

watch the distance of the lines to the track limit on the right...massa and vettel follow the tracks' curvature as you'd normally do, perez does not ... the pic above this post explains it well

It's kind of hard to argue that Perez wasn't at fault there. Unless you are blind.

[Sevach]

Perez thought he was a safe from distance Massa so originally he choose the quickest line around the corner instead of a defensive line.

When he noticed Massa intended to dive bomb down the inside he wanted to defend but that was past the point of no return.

[Redragon]

I am not contradicting about your posts,
but I just wanted to point out that Perez was having problems with brakes and he does same line and movement few laps before when Riccardo passed him. Trying to brake a bit later to defend position
By your video posts it is clear that he goes outwards but the car does too a little sudden movement to the right, so maybe he was loosing it on the brakes and try to keep control of it.
But it is just a wonder.

[Sevach]

Well, stewards have data to judge this.
If (after looking at the data) they thought Perez slid a bit wide because of his braking problems then he shoudn't have been punished.
If they think Perez consciously choose to change his line, then the punishment is correct.

Kobayashi in Australia looked like an awful mistake from the outside but it was deemed as car problems so he wasn't punished, since we don't have the data i think we should give the vote of confidence to them (kinda).

Obs: The Ricciardo move was completely different, on that instance Perez went on defensive early and held the inside line, Ricciardo picked the outside and completed the move, this time Perez innitially chose to stick to the racing line and changed his mind late when he saw that Massa intended to dive bomb.

[CHT]

Perez's move could be to uncut Vettel with late braking on the inside rather than trying to block Massa.

Except that he started braking very early which contributed to accident.

Massa could just be at the wrong place at the wrong time.

Yeah, this one is true.

This is a very highly charged race for both Perez and Massa as both of them must have been told on the radio that there is a good chance for them to win the race.

Perez was in the perfect position to capitalized on merc problem, while Massa has got the fastest car during the last part of the race.

[Shrieker]

I watched Massa's onboard. It was %100 Massa's fault. And he's under investigation for causing a collision which proves it imho.

So i was wrong about it. The analysis in the previous page clearly shows Perez moving off racing line in the braking zone. From Massa's on board it looked like he flat ran into Perez.

[Chuckjr]

Yea I get it that just raw talent is a beautiful thing to witness and certainly Hamilton meets that expectation, but in today's racing f1 formulae, there's more to the game.

Right. Here we go again. The "Hamilton-is-talented-but-not-smart-or-patient-enough". Not true anymore. That may have been the case earlier in his career, but in recent years he has matured and can bring it home just as well as the next guy.

We should conveniently ignore the fact that he got screwed by RC today.

Sorry for my delayed response. My job sometimes is quite consuming and I can't post as often as I would prefer.

I actually think Lewis is very intelligent. His intelligence is not my argument here whatsoever. All I was stating was that some drivers style is a bit more harsh on the car. That's not criticizing, rather, just their style. I don't think it's just bad luck. I think it also has to do with how the driver goes about being fast. Some, for example, Schumacher, knew how to be very fast but in such a way that it's not as hard on the car. It's an instinct, non-learned trait. Not negative or positive, just a style thing.

IMO, winning the WDC has to do not just with raw talent, but many other contributing factors. These must be considered in the long term for consistent success. That's what I was trying to state in my previous post. I think that's one of the principal reasons some drivers win so many championships. They simply have an ability to go fast while also not being as tough on the car. There's more to it than just driving the nuts off a car.

RC didn't screw Lewis at all. No idea where you got that.

[mikeerfol]

Here's how JB ended up 4th

[Hobbs04]

Perez appeared to make several mistakes which led to Vettels pass ultimately he was taking fire from all sides and probably tried to take a mid road defensive line. I've done the very same thing in a race where I lost the pace and tried to park in front of few other drivers. I'm not saying he pulled a Schumacher and tried to take the other guy out., but penalty deserved. Case closed.