Front wing centre section

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trinidefender
trinidefender
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Joined: 19 Apr 2013, 20:37

Front wing centre section

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A question or two for those more familiar with the rules then myself. I know the centre section of the front wing is supposed to be neutral airflow wise but how do they exactly do they measure that? Does the centre section of the front wing have to be parallel to the ground or neutral along the same axis is the floor of the car or what?

Also I know the profile has to be symmetrical but is the chord and camber of the wing fixed as well or just the width of the central section? Can teams play around with where the maximum camber point on the wing along its chord is for example?

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Pierce89
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Joined: 21 Oct 2009, 18:38

Re: Front wing centre section

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trinidefender wrote:A question or two for those more familiar with the rules then myself. I know the centre section of the front wing is supposed to be neutral airflow wise but how do they exactly do they measure that? Does the centre section of the front wing have to be parallel to the ground or neutral along the same axis is the floor of the car or what?

Also I know the profile has to be symmetrical but is the chord and camber of the wing fixed as well or just the width of the central section? Can teams play around with where the maximum camber point on the wing along its chord is for example?
The center section is fully prescribed in the rules there's virtually no room for "creativity". It runs at the same AoA as the reference plane.
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trinidefender
trinidefender
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Re: Front wing centre section

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So essentially if you are running 2 degrees of rake on the car then the centre section as a 2 degree downward pitch to it?

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turbof1
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Re: Front wing centre section

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I believe so yes.

Team employed other solutions in the past, most if not all are banned now. Like stacking it with the camera pods.
#AeroFrodo

trinidefender
trinidefender
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Joined: 19 Apr 2013, 20:37

Re: Front wing centre section

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turbof1 wrote:I believe so yes.

Team employed other solutions in the past, most if not all are banned now. Like stacking it with the camera pods.
Hmm if that is true then it may be one of the reasons that RedBull have been so fast since 2009. By designing the car to run so much rake, without allowing to much airflow into the diffuser and floor from the sides then, it also helps the front end to work harder by allowing the centre section of the front wing to work harder simply by the rake adding some negative pitch to it. This can allow them to run the conventional outer wing sections with less load disturbing the airflow less and allowing smoother airflow further at the back of the car. The whole wing creating downforce instead of just the outer sections will always be more efficient.

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turbof1
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Re: Front wing centre section

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trinidefender wrote:
turbof1 wrote:I believe so yes.

Team employed other solutions in the past, most if not all are banned now. Like stacking it with the camera pods.
Hmm if that is true then it may be one of the reasons that RedBull have been so fast since 2009. By designing the car to run so much rake, without allowing to much airflow into the diffuser and floor from the sides then, it also helps the front end to work harder by allowing the centre section of the front wing to work harder simply by the rake adding some negative pitch to it. This can allow them to run the conventional outer wing sections with less load disturbing the airflow less and allowing smoother airflow further at the back of the car. The whole wing creating downforce instead of just the outer sections will always be more efficient.
Mclaren even had a solution back in 2011 to undo the pitch at higher speeds:
http://scarbsf1.com/blog1/category/mcla ... 26/page/2/

Though a clarification later it had to be removed.
#AeroFrodo

Diff-user
Diff-user
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Joined: 11 May 2012, 19:23

Re: Front wing centre section

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trinidefender wrote: Does the centre section of the front wing have to be parallel to the ground or neutral along the same axis is the floor of the car or what?
I would just like to point out that even a symmetrical section parallel to the ground will generate some measurable amount of downforce due to the asymmetry in the flow on its either side. I could have run a few simulations to prove this but i graduated and left my university just a week ago.

And funny little word, this aero-neutral. A device may be aeroneutral with respect to the regulations if its major axis is parallel to the reference plane. But the regulations can do nothing to ensure that the local angle of incidence is zero. In other words, a smartly designed element upstream can generate a wee bit of downforce from these aeroneutral parts. However, the downforce so produced won't make much of a difference; too little, too draggy.
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l4mbch0ps
l4mbch0ps
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Joined: 06 Aug 2008, 06:48

Re: Front wing centre section

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And funny little word, this aero-neutral. A device may be aeroneutral with respect to the regulations if its major axis is parallel to the reference plane. But the regulations can do nothing to ensure that the local angle of incidence is zero. In other words, a smartly designed element upstream can generate a wee bit of downforce from these aeroneutral parts. However, the downforce so produced won't make much of a difference; too little, too draggy.
Only problem is that you can't place any elements upstream of the front wing center section.

bhall II
bhall II
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Joined: 19 Jun 2014, 20:15

Re: Front wing centre section

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I think Red Bull's success was actually a bit more straight forward. (Well, certainly not straight, and rake did help.)

Image

While other teams had to more or less live with the convention that more downforce equals more drag, the flexibility of Red Bull's wings allowed them to run a ----ton of downforce, as the progressively lowered ride height eventually killed downforce because "...at a very low height above the ground, the vortex bursts, the boundary layer separates from the suction surface, and the downforce actually reduces."

Image

Other teams could have run just as much downforce, but without the ability to shed it at speed, they'd have been dead to rights along straights.

trinidefender
trinidefender
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Joined: 19 Apr 2013, 20:37

Re: Front wing centre section

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bhall II wrote:I think Red Bull's success was actually a bit more straight forward. (Well, certainly not straight, and rake did help.)

http://i.imgur.com/w6gI3Ee.jpg

While other teams had to more or less live with the convention that more downforce equals more drag, the flexibility of Red Bull's wings allowed them to run a --- of downforce, as the progressively lowered ride height eventually killed downforce because "...at a very low height above the ground, the vortex bursts, the boundary layer separates from the suction surface, and the downforce actually reduces."

http://i.imgur.com/WW0mypN.jpg

Other teams could have run just as much downforce, but without the ability to shed it at speed, they'd have been dead to rights along straights.
Bhall I'm not contradicting anything you say, I'm just referring to any benefits that come from the centre section as a result of the rake.

I personally don't think it is just any one design feature but just a well designed car overall that made it quick. Please don't make this thread go sidetracked like many others do.