Flo Vis Paint?

[Constructr]

So whats the process for Flo-Vis paint? Do they install a container of the paint with nozzles placed strategically around the car and disperse it while it's running around the track or do the just apply it in certain places on the car while in the pits and then it flows as the car runs?

[marcush.]

i think you are spot on with your questions here -it does not look ver scientific to me how it is done at the tracks ..have someone apply an unspecified amount of substance with a brush and have the Driver Pound around the track at somewhat constant Speed but still you have the acceration and coasting from and to the pits ..temps ,sidewinds and what have you influencing the Patterns developing .
I ´d love to see the first Team actually spraying on the flow viz the moment any measing of effects is done and capturing the development of evidence by some sort of camera -eg goPro Hi Tech equivalent-maybe with high Speed Frame capturing syncronised with aero data gathering during that run.

[strad]

just apply it in certain places on the car while in the pits and then it flows as the car runs?

[mep]

Any spray mechanism or camera will disturb the airflow. The effect of side winds and accelerations might be relatively small compared to the wind speed of the car. Don`t forget that one major part of that procedure is to compare the flow vis patterns on the race car with the patterns seen in the windtunnel and in CFD. The flow vis is used for correlation of the windtunnel. The majority of the development takes place there. So even when it appears to be slightly crude it is still valuable. Part of that its simple use.

[Powerslide]

If we take a look at modern formula One cars, one thing that is apparent now is the amount of little detail work on aerodynamics with small veins and fins. I think Flo-Viz can make a large contribution towards looking at this and how new parts relate to the current body shape, to see if it is working at that track environment, humidity, temperature and density. If it matched CFD reading and Flo-Viz used at wind tunnels then its a go. This is in correlation with what mep said, to relate to CFD.

[Kiril Varbanov]

So whats the process for Flo-Vis paint? Do they install a container of the paint with nozzles placed strategically around the car and disperse it while it's running around the track or do the just apply it in certain places on the car while in the pits and then it flows as the car runs?

Spray gun is lavishly used to paint and then the air flow takes care of the rest. Given the fact that the substance is home-made, often we see it very liquid and sometimes it's visible only under ultraviolet light (hiding details).

[aussiegman]

Here's one they prepared earlier

[Cam]

So whats the process for Flo-Vis paint? Do they install a container of the paint with nozzles placed strategically around the car and disperse it while it's running around the track or do the just apply it in certain places on the car while in the pits and then it flows as the car runs?

“Another trick is to fit up a simple windscreen washer system with very small tubes (1mm diameter) finishing on the surface of the body. Then when you get to the higher speed section just switch on the pump. The fluid will wash onto the surface and you will get the results at high speed only.”

lol beat me to it.....

Edit: can also be brushed.

[Kiril Varbanov]

A hands-on recipe I'd like to share, which works for both pro and home uses:

- Titanium dioxide powder; enough to make a thin slurry that's in between the paraffin and lubricating oil in consistency
- Half a teaspoonful of fluoroscein color indicator (to contrast with the car choose your color wisely)
- A few drops of oleic acid (wetting agent to help the fluid flow on surfaces)

These chemicals are not hard to find. Do some small-scale trials to determine the ideal mix and use small spray bottles to apply on a surface. Do so couple of seconds before the actual run, as the ambient temperature, if high, can quickly dry it, while also assuming that the speed will take time to build up.

Pro users may contact my friends at http://psp-tsp.com for custom solutions, including the pressure sensitive paint I've written about a while ago - http://f1framework.blogspot.com/2012/09/psp-in-f1.html

[WaikeCU]

I think it would be cool if they can use ultraviolet flo-viz. That way the other competition can't see the airflow on their car. Back in the garage they use ultraviolet lighting to check the flow of the aerodynamics. Would it work?

[tathan]

No, there's a rather sizeable UV emitter inconveniently placed in the sky which might give the game away.

[marcush.]

Any spray mechanism or camera will disturb the airflow. The effect of side winds and accelerations might be relatively small compared to the wind speed of the car. Don`t forget that one major part of that procedure is to compare the flow vis patterns on the race car with the patterns seen in the windtunnel and in CFD. The flow vis is used for correlation of the windtunnel. The majority of the development takes place there. So even when it appears to be slightly crude it is still valuable. Part of that its simple use.

comeon mep ...you have seen those grid girders /aero rakes they stack on the car to measure flow fields and now you say spraying on a fluid does more harm than sloshing a blotch of fluid on the part and wait how it distributes?
The cars use: 5 or more tV cameras +4 IR cameras for tyre Observation which are positioned in highly developped flow fields .
I do not accept your statements as valid in this context given the integration of camera and spray dispenser is not just a tank tape Job.

the effects of sidewinds maybe very slow -But yet we hear guys complaining to be affected by sidewinds -Hulkenberg in silverstone clearly indicated his car seems to be affected by windy conditions more than competitors machinery .as the sheer area of exposure seems no different for Force India it seems reasonable to assume sidewinds have a significant influence on flow ...at least under the formula 1 microscope conditions where 1% of Performance is the difference from hero to not making it into Q2.

coincidently the Flowviz Job of FI above applied with Wurth style spray bottles seems to me messiest one ....that bottle worth 20or so bucks is a Amateur device -end of Story there are much better ways of applying a coat of paint.

Mind you ,I actually do things like this in my work (vehicle Validation ) we apply water to windshields to validate deicing times for hologation purposes .you have to make sure you have a correct thickness of ice on the Screen at test start.Easy enough to do make your mind up how it´s done and go forward.My boss and TUV would laugh their socks of if i came up with a Wurth pumpbottle.

[strad]

they are not trying to paint the car just applying some flo-vis so they can see where it goes and a brush or cheap sprayer work fine.

[marcush.]

you could as well say you do not Need a rolling road windtunnel or a 60%model size ...the results of less euipment is good enough ..... you are not coming up with any evidence apart from:teams are doing it this way .Which is not really a proof of validity of the methods applied given all experience trips deep into the Woods frequently..

[Cam]

it does not look ver scientific to me how it is done at the tracks ..have someone apply an unspecified amount of substance with a brush and have the Driver Pound around the track at somewhat constant Speed but still you have the acceration and coasting from and to the pits ..temps ,sidewinds and what have you influencing the Patterns developing .

I'm not sure it's supposed to be 100% - it's a guide. Here's a nice peice of information comparing two separate images - and how you can easily tell what's working and what's not. From everything I can read up on it, it's more of a checking process (that the CFD and wind tunnel) work as expected. So it doesn't really mater if it's brushed on or finger painted (ok, maybe not fingered painted), the point is to get it on and see how it looks in real world.

Here we are comparing two images of cars where a team has put on Flo Viz paint onto a key aerodynamic part, which highlights the air flow over a key downforce generating piece. Flo Viz is short for “Flow Vizualisation”. It allows engineers to see how a part is behaving aerodynamically. read more

This cascade isn’t working properly

You can see that the left hand side of the wing has been correctly painted with Flo Viz and the air flow lines are perfect.