Caterham F1 team 2014

[FoxHound]

Not sure if you or KK have heard stories of Monaco where it is impossible to overtake. Coulthard's Mclaren was 4 seconds faster than the arrows yet Bernoldi kept him behind while KK could not keep a slower Marussia behind

I'm not entirely certain you watched how Bianchi got passed Kobayashi. Once again now, he clouted Kobayashi on the rear 3/4s to get his car passed. Kobayashi's car snaked on impact and was damaged from said impact.
That Bianchi benefited and Kobayashi lost out from the manoeuvre should not take away from the above.

Coulthard attempting the same move would've resulted in damage for either car, as attempting a move through La Rascasse invariably leads to lost wings, damaged floors or retirement.
Besides, there are better places to overtake at Monaco.

What of Kobayashi stuffing one up the inside of Raikkonen at Brazil? Sack Raikkonen.
Not having any of Button's Brawn dominance at Abu Dhabi 2009? Sack Button.
Or overtaking Alonso at Valencia with some panache 2011? Sack Alonso.
Pulling of a series of exquisite overtaking manoeuvres at Suzuka in 2010? Sack Heidfeld, Alguesari, Sutil, Hulkenberg.
Or Nailing Rosberg and Schumacher at Sepang? Sack MSC and Rosberg.
Killing Massa on the outside at the Oz GP 2011? Sack Massa.
Picking Alonso's pocket in Brazil 2011? Sack Alonso again....oh it was a wet race too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nhXAVCZHLM
Or this little beauty on Vettel...moans about it too.



I get you don't like him, calling for his sacking when he is punted from behind reveals as much. As does pulling a demo run in wet conditions as evidence of his wet racing skills.
But if you level that sort of critique at him, we have no drivers left.

[FW17]

I get you don't like him, calling for his sacking when he is punted from behind reveals as much. As does pulling a demo run in wet conditions as evidence of his wet racing skills.
But if you level that sort of critique at him, we have no drivers left.

I do not hate KK, I just don't mind changes in back end teams. And this one is even better as we get to see how a champ from another series perform.

I get that you want give him the benefit any driver deserves, but Monaco 2014 was not any other GP or the situation that happened was not any other. Monaco 2014 was probably the first opportunity since he new teams arrived in 2010 that they have had an opportunity to score a point. It is not only about KK but the larger disappointment of Caterham as a whole. Better funded and better staffed they were beaten by Marussia on a day when they need not have and could have comfortably scored their first point. It was a culture at Caterham as a whole when there is no accountability neither in engineering or among the drivers. What JB did was probably wrong but in the days when FIA were on the lookout for such incidents, the FIA did not even take a second look at it, so there is no point blaming JB. Just imagine Flavio (I am not a fan of) was the team boss, would he have allowed the drivers of such comfort.

What at Monaco 2014 was a embarrassment, similar to Trulli in 2004 French GP when he let Barrichello through on the final corner of the GP. The issue there was not that he let a driver through on the last lap but it was French car, French GP.

[adrianjordan]

What JB did was probably wrong but in the days when FIA were on the lookout for such incidents, the FIA did not even take a second look at it, so there is no point blaming JB.

So what you're saying is that it's okay to crash into another driver and damage their car to get passed them, so long as the FIA doesn't look into it... I'm sorry but I can't agree with you there. Crashing into another driver is never acceptable in F1.

[FW17]

So what you're saying is that it's okay to crash into another driver and damage their car to get passed them, so long as the FIA doesn't look into it... I'm sorry but I can't agree with you there. Crashing into another driver is never acceptable in F1.

Good that you have a definition of crashing but unfortunately it is the FIA who officiates the definition for a F1GP.

[FoxHound]

Williams,

Did JB punt Kobayashi?

[FW17]

Williams,

Did JB punt Kobayashi?

Why should I decide?

[FoxHound]

You made your decision to sack Kobayashi based on the incident.
Therefore it is pertinent to the discussion.
Again, did JB punt Kobayashi?

[Pierce89]

Williams,

Did JB punt Kobayashi?

No, he passed him. He had at least 1/4 of a car overlap and made an agressive overtake. Hardly a punt.

[FoxHound]

Williams,

Did JB punt Kobayashi?

No, he passed him. He had at least 1/4 of a car overlap and made an agressive overtake. Hardly a punt.

The question was to Williams, Pierce.

But......Of course he passed him, this is not for discussion. Please explain a 1/4 car overlap that involves moving the car out the way using your own vehicle.
Kobayashi's car moves after been hit by Bianchi's, twice.

The video:

http://www.dalealplay.com/videos/Jules- ... 014_536157

This is a punt out the way, whichever way you look at it.

[FoxHound]

What JB did was probably wrong but in the days when FIA were on the lookout for such incidents, the FIA did not even take a second look at it, so there is no point blaming JB.

I'm not blaming any driver. This was just "one of those things" especially at a track like Monaco.
My protestations are based on you warranting Kobayashi's sacking for this incident specifically.

[FW17]

You made your decision to sack Kobayashi based on the incident.
Therefore it is pertinent to the discussion.
Again, did JB punt Kobayashi?

As I said before it is not me who decides on incidents, the FIA does. It has been lenient post Canada but was handing out penalties like hot cakes prior to that. JB was already on the watch list after his penalty at Malaysia.

Like I said, KK as the lead driver for the team should not have let it happen.

Also see what happens before the incident, tries an overtake on kimi (after letting him by) out of the tunnel, over cooks it, cuts the chicane, has to yield the place, thinks section after swimming pool is the best, arrives at rascasse at half the speed having let kimi past, leaves the door open on the inside, JB gets past.

[FoxHound]

He got punted, end of story.

Either way, what business is sacking him got to do with a singular incident at an incident prone venue as Monaco?
None at all in view of all the examples I have given previously.

I garner from what you are saying, a has been 32 year old journeyman with no F1 race experience is more deserving of a chance than someone who has raced and beaten some of the best drivers in F1, champions included.

On what basis? He is a champion in another series?

Let's take a look at that shall we?

Team Joest Audi.
Benoit Treluyer and Marcel Fassler are Co-Drivers and 66% responsible for Team Joest results.

Competition? Laughable.

Kobayashi at least had a Formula Renault and GP2 series under his belt at 10 years Lotterers junior.
I don't pay the bills at Caterham, so it's not my call. But I dont gotta like it.
Any justification on the basis of record or performance is paltry to zero.

[acosmichippo]

Competition? Laughable.

Are you saying LMP1 competition is laughable? Even if you don't count Porsche, Toyota, and Peugeot (in previous years), the competition within the Audi team would have been pretty high.

[FoxHound]

LMP1 did not encompass Porsche when Lotterer won his titles.
Toyota and Peugeot did not compete against Audi in unison. They did so alternate to the other so far as I recollect.
So Audi had 1 real competitor at any stage of its challenge, other than in house.
And any in house competition could possibly be subject to team orders.
This allied to the fact that each car has 3 drivers.

[wesley123]

Kobayashi at least had a Formula Renault and GP2 series under his belt at 10 years Lotterers junior.

Quite sure Lotterer was running in the Super Formula(Formula Nippon) and has been excused for the next race so that he could run at Spa.

Although less known Super formula isn't a series to take lightly.

Also Lotterer has quite a lot of LMP1 experience with Audi. Those cars are quite close to F1 levels of performance. In LMP1 vehicles are now also fuel restricted and pit stops take a long time. Thus, stopping less gains you a lot of time, putting a lot of emphasis on making the tires and fuel last.

his experience in making tires and fuel last in LMP1 can be very valuable for Caterham. He could provide lots of feedback on that. Not to forget that he already ran on Spa this year for the 6hrs of Spa in the Audi.