2014 Belgian GP - Spa-Francorchamps

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ChrisM40
ChrisM40
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Re: 2014 Belgian GP - Spa-Francorchamps

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Jano11 wrote:
SectorOne wrote:
Jano11 wrote:Now you are going too far. Not that Hamilton didn't do just that, he did.
No i´m not. And he did disregard Rosberg as he should. Again, it´s on Rosberg to back off.
But this is the mindset that is losing Hamilton his chances to ever get a 2nd F1 WDC title, unless he thinks that RB will not be up there next season.
You can't disregard the existence of front wing alongside your wheel, the rules of physics are there waiting to apply to a contact.
IMO both were equally stubborn and have a part of blame.
Every other driver would have done the same in lewis' position, including Nico, because Nicos move was a a standard failed pass that happens quite often without contact. So what point do you think you are making?

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SectorOne
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Re: 2014 Belgian GP - Spa-Francorchamps

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Jano11 wrote:But this is the mindset that is losing Hamilton his chances to ever get a 2nd F1 WDC title,
No it´s not. This mindset every driver has. I don´t understand why you keep harping on about normal racing.

Hamilton (like others except Rosberg i presume) races under the assumption that nobody is out with the intent to destroy another driver´s race.

Deal with it, Rosberg was at 100% fault, it´s all crystal clear now and you need to absorb that sh*t like a spunge.
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

Jano11
Jano11
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Re: 2014 Belgian GP - Spa-Francorchamps

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ChrisM40 wrote: Every other driver would have done the same in lewis' position, including Nico, because Nicos move was a a standard failed pass that happens quite often without contact. So what point do you think you are making?
Can't agree.
There are a bunch of drivers on the grid who would have easily avoided this because of their different mindset when racing hard.

Jonnycraig
Jonnycraig
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Re: 2014 Belgian GP - Spa-Francorchamps

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SectorOne wrote:
Jonnycraig wrote:
SectorOne wrote:
Rosberg to me looks like he´s giving up but he misjudges the distance with his front wing and rear tire
So a racing incident then...

Worth pointing out here that Saward claims Rosberg is alleged to have said he 'left his nose alongside to prove a point', as opposed to the more sensationalised 'crashed into him to make a point'.

Quite a difference in refusing to back out of a fight with your teammate, and deliberately driving into them.
So take a pick. Because if you choose both statements in your post you are a hypocrite.

It´s not a racing incident if a driver deliberately puts his nose in an area it do not belong to prove a point.
It´s malicious intent and is not a racing incident.

It´s also not a racing incident when Maldonado on purpose hit Hamilton in SPA 2012(?)
Well that argument depends on if you believe having your nose inside the car infront is a position it doesn't belong. Most racing drivers would disagree with you, including the man Hamilton often references, Senna.

Here is the full quote by the way:
“It looked quite clear to me but we just had a meeting about it and he basically said he did it on purpose,” Hamilton said. “He said he did it on purpose, he said he could have avoided it. He said 'I did it to prove a point', he basically said 'I did it to prove a point'. And you don't have to just rely on me, go and ask Toto, Paddy and all those guys who are not happy with him as well.”
So as suspected, he didn't actually say what is being alleged . :roll:

Waywardism
Waywardism
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Re: 2014 Belgian GP - Spa-Francorchamps

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Seems pretty clear-cut to me what he is saying there.

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dans79
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Re: 2014 Belgian GP - Spa-Francorchamps

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If what Lewis says is true, what do people think the team will do? I can't see them not penalizing him in some way.
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Jano11
Jano11
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Re: 2014 Belgian GP - Spa-Francorchamps

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SectorOne wrote:
Jano11 wrote:But this is the mindset that is losing Hamilton his chances to ever get a 2nd F1 WDC title,
No it´s not. This mindset every driver has. I don´t understand why you keep harping on about normal racing.

Hamilton (like others except Rosberg i presume) races under the assumption that nobody is out with the intent to destroy another driver´s race.

Deal with it, Rosberg was at 100% fault, it´s all crystal clear now and you need to absorb that sh*t like a spunge.
Well somehow, he was the only one to get caught out today, I wonder how did the others manage not to destroy their own race, after having even longer and more heated fights.

And BTW I don't give a damn about either Hamilton or Rosberg, they just lucked into the best car this year. So no need to absorb anything.
For me the racing incident outcome supported by the stewards if more then fine. You however as a die hard Hamilton fan, need to leave with those lost points, again.

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RZS10
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Re: 2014 Belgian GP - Spa-Francorchamps

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Lost all respect for Rosberg tbh ... also shines a different light on the Monaco incident

Jano11
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Re: 2014 Belgian GP - Spa-Francorchamps

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dans79 wrote:If what Lewis says is true, what do people think the team will do? I can't see them not penalizing him in some way.
He'll get a spanking day with Max.

BTW, what Lewis says is that Nico kept alongside him on purpose, not that he sliced his tire on purpose.

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Poleman
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Re: 2014 Belgian GP - Spa-Francorchamps

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Jano11 wrote: And BTW I don't give a damn about either Hamilton or Rosberg, they just lucked into the best car this year. So no need to absorb anything.
For me the racing incident outcome supported by the stewards if more then fine. You however as a die hard Hamilton fan, need to leave with those lost points, again.
So Hakkinen/Shumacher/Alonso/Vettel also lucked in the best car when they won their championships by your logic...

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tarzoon
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Re: 2014 Belgian GP - Spa-Francorchamps

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Jano11 wrote: Can't agree.
There are a bunch of drivers on the grid who would have easily avoided this because of their different mindset when racing hard.
Then they're not racing drivers.

NTS
NTS
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Re: 2014 Belgian GP - Spa-Francorchamps

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Jano11 wrote:Anyway, the issue here is that both have their share of blame in this incident, and both could have avoided it, that's why no one got a penalty and why this is called racing incident.
You are not going to get anyone here to admit HAM could have avoided it.

In karting we have a few guys in our team that tend to drive "elbows out", which is a style you choose. HAM does the same thing, he chooses to turn left there instead of leaving half a meter of extra space at the apex of the next corner. He has the right to do so, and it gets him an advantage if it works (which is 9 our of 10 times), but it ends in tears 1 out of 10 times. Similar thing: Previous race he let the car run so wide on the exit that ROS had to go on the grass, which allowed HAM to stay in front. Again: This is a style that he chooses, he fights to the limit and it is within the rules, but it does run the risk of more incidents.

I've also seen VET do this a lot lately, he pushes to the edge and sometimes it goes wrong. Counter-examples are BUT and until last year WEB, both would have left a space here, sometimes loose a position to a more agressive driver (WEB to VET a few times for example), but it does avoid DNFs which in the end also cost points.
SectorOne wrote:It´s also not a racing incident when Maldonado on purpose hit Hamilton in SPA 2012(?)
Actually that's another perfect example. HAM let his car run wide (allowed by the rules), which forced MAL a bit off the track. But instead of MAL braking and loosing a spot to this agressive move (as would have been the right thing to do), he stayed in there and T-boned HAM. That's the risk that HAM takes with his driving style.

However, without this style HAM would not score as many points as he does. So it's a "good thing", we should just accept that he is involved in more DNFs than others and that is partially his own fault for being more agressive.

Jano11
Jano11
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Re: 2014 Belgian GP - Spa-Francorchamps

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Poleman wrote:
Jano11 wrote: And BTW I don't give a damn about either Hamilton or Rosberg, they just lucked into the best car this year. So no need to absorb anything.
For me the racing incident outcome supported by the stewards if more then fine. You however as a die hard Hamilton fan, need to leave with those lost points, again.
So Hakkinen/Shumacher/Alonso/Vettel also lucked in the best car when they won their championships by your logic...
If you think you can luck into a WDC 4 or 7 times.

NTS
NTS
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Re: 2014 Belgian GP - Spa-Francorchamps

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Jano11 wrote:Can't agree.
There are a bunch of drivers on the grid who would have easily avoided this because of their different mindset when racing hard.
+1, there is a difference in style. VET* would have done exactly the same thing as HAM and had an incident, while BUT would not have done that. And that's probably the point that ROS was trying to make... HAM has a mindset that causes accidents once in a while, which is a risk he seems willing to take. ROS got tired of it and let him have his accident.

(* -> And you could call me a Red Bull fan, so please don't take this as undue criticism on Vettel for not liking him)
Last edited by NTS on 24 Aug 2014, 18:22, edited 1 time in total.

Waywardism
Waywardism
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Re: 2014 Belgian GP - Spa-Francorchamps

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dans79 wrote:If what Lewis says is true, what do people think the team will do? I can't see them not penalizing him in some way.
I honestly don't know. It would be interesting to know if there is anything in their contracts covering this regarding imposing fines on them or something along those lines. Other than that, what can they do except sack him or give his seat to someone else for a while? What would you do?

I would give his seat to the reserve driver for a couple of races.

I can't imagine Toto responding to this in a light-handed manner if it's true.