no more help for the drivers

[Richard]

Has anyone got examples of actual dialogue or is this conjecture about telling a driver how to drive? I can only find transcripts of the extracts broadcast on TV, ie the exciting bits.

IMHO - It would seem reasonable for a driver and engineer to have dialogue about where they might be loosing time or not. I'd expect that to be instigated by the driver, or a driver might ask the engineer before the race to let them know under certain circumstances. We've certainly heard drivers ask where they are losing time when they are being caught, or trying to catch someone. Also, in the days of KERS the engineer could tell the driver the optimum use of the KERS allowance to overtake/defend based on the telemetry and the timing of the other car in front/behind.

[SectorOne]

leave me alone ,I know what I´m doing - K.R.

the engineer cannot judge the grip levels available from his stand point he sure can pass on hints were time is lost and gained vs teammmate and still it´s not a good idea to try and brake were the ohter guy does when you are not in exactly the same car ...so if your tyre is too hot or cold or for what ever reason your car has not the same performance you will simply go off..We have seen trapped marble accumulations disturbing airflows enough to rob several tenths of a second per lap of car potential ..you just cannot compensate by braking later.

The funny thing is Kimi still gets information, still uses it. In that particular moment he felt he had 100% control over the situation and what to do which was great to see no doubt.

The reason the engineer can help the driver go faster is because the driver is not on a qualifying lap.
He´s on an economy run for tires and fuel so when you introduce things like coasting and how best to take a corner for the sake of the tires longevity then the driver will adapt and patch that thing up if his teammate is doing something different to him that nets a couple tenths with the same efficiency for the tires etc.

Again, there´s a reason why they have their mouth shut in Qualifying laps but can have conversations in Races.
Races are not anywhere near Qualifying and incorporates a lot of management that the driver uses to go faster, longer and stronger.

Reading your second post i think you have massively misunderstood why they get the messages and what for.
Again, no talk in Quali, only race so i´m not sure why you are so stuck on the engineer telling the driver how to get the most out of the car in pure performance when it´s all about management of the systems that the driver gets help with.

[Richard]

Just found and example of the sort of comms between engineers and drivers:

"Mode 3 fuel 4"
"BBW 4 and forwards on brake balance"
"Optimum 7 and MEng 3"
"13 laps on these tyres"


Jump to 2m 15s:

[Andres125sx]

The whole point of having those controls on the dash is because you can't dial them in during practice, they can be adjusted whenever to account for how the car changes throughout a stint and throughout a race.

So the car goes on rails for the whole race, it doesn´t change (too much) from a 100kg payload to last lap with an empty/light car

Maybe they should keep some adjustments, but right now there´re too much, three differential knobs, brake bias, two clutch phases, mappings for engine, ers...

Today car´s don´t change too much from first to last lap, and to me that´s not good for racing. Drivers should cope with car behaviour changes

So they should have more restrictions, such as not being allowed to adjust brake bias?

Yes, there´re tons of absurd restrictions, some more won´t be harmful if they improve driver´s role

Not sure if brake bias is a good example, but for example clutch should be handled by the driver IMO

[dans79]

some things from the last race that i would consider telling the driver how to drive.

Tony Ross to Nico Rosberg - Try an earlier apex in turn 11, Parabolica. Try and open the steering on exit for scrubbing.
Peter Bonnington to Lewis Hamilton - OK Lewis two-tenths faster last lap. Gap now 1.8. Nico carrying more speed entry apex turn 11.


you can find more if you check the radio transcripts.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/category/reg ... anscripts/

[SectorOne]

thanks, was looking earlier for the transcripts.

[stewilkinson]

I have to agree, I don't really like the idea of the drivers getting told where to break later etc. It's more obvious this year when you've got two guys really close and battling the championship who have both benefited from the advice.

[dans79]

These are just the ones that show up on the world feed, I'm betting there's a lot more actually, and FOM just broadcasts the ones they think will stir the pot the most.

What I think is most interesting, is that the request appears to be coming from the teams themselves.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115776

[NTS]

But those are only the broadcasted messages right? There are much more messages between team and car.

[strad]

Goodness.. I can't believe it..I have pushed this exact point of view for years..and partly behind the Alone and Unaided
rule.

What I think is most interesting, is that the request appears to be coming from the teams themselves.

Agree with that.. bowled me over

[marcush.]

quite embarrassing this to reduce highly paid drivers to driving monkeys excelling at following exactly the guidelines of their race engineers of how to drive...interestingly enough Hamilton seems to follow driving instructions but ignores team playing instructions....

[wesley123]

I don't see how it's embarassing? I can't think of any sport where some other guy doesn't tell you how to compete in the event.

I'm not sure how it is either embarassing or wrong to get an edge over your opponents.

[i70q7m7ghw]

So let me understand this, does this ban the team from telling the driver what modes to put the car in when they have a problem? So for example they have an ERS harvest issue, is the team allowed to tell the driver what setting changes they should make to help nurse the issue, or does the driver now need to be a drive-train engineer and fix it themselves?

I agree with the need to reduce the information sharing during the race, I think the Merc info sharing this season has been a little too much, but I think this rule is going to be very hard to enforce, and could lead to other issues.

[SectorOne]

So let me understand this, does this ban the team from telling the driver what modes to put the car in when they have a problem? So for example they have an ERS harvest issue, is the team allowed to tell the driver what setting changes they should make to help nurse the issue, or does the driver now need to be a drive-train engineer and fix it themselves?

I´m pretty sure that is still allowed.
It´s just things like "take a wider entry at Turn 11, Nico carrying more speed through here" is not ok.

[kooleracer]

Vettel and Rosberg will be hit hardest. Those two spring to mind immediately when it comes to their engineers giving them advice about how to improve on track.