2014 Italian GP - Monza, September 5-7

[Richard]

Wolff's smile was a delayed broadcast from a few minutes before when Hamilton rejoined the track after his pit stop to assure Merc of the 1-2.

Wolff claims that the timing of the images - which were broadcast a few seconds after Rosberg went off the track - were confusing because they were a replay of a reaction that had been filmed before the incident ... "There was a smile when the two [Hamilton and Rosberg] were close to each other. It was a 'here we go again, this is a close battle.'"

Wolff also said that the broadcasting of radio communication between the pits and Hamilton shortly before his attack on Rosberg had also not given a true picture of what was going on. Broadcast messages indicated that Hamilton had been asked to back off and save his tyres for an attack in the closing stages. But Hamilton appeared to ignore that and pushed straight away to close the gap, forcing the error from Rosberg a few laps later.

Wolff said that the real scenario was that after the message about saving tyres, there was further dialogue where it was agreed he should try to push immediately. "Not all communication is being broadcast," he said.

"After the pit stop, the message was 'I think we should save the tyres on both cars and take it to the end and let them fight at the end. But we changed the opinion because there was clearly a possibility for the driver who was following to overtake at the beginning of the stint and the end of the stint. So we came back with the message to the drivers that they were free to use whatever modes were available. It was according to plan."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115779

[mrluke]

I dont understand, if rosberg was told to let Hamilton past, he would have made it very very obvious.

Hamilton was much faster than rosberg (again) this weekend, no conspiracy needed.

[Phil]

One more thing to add; If Rosberg had received some order to let Hamilton past either by cutting the chicane or otherwise, I bet you would see that Hamilton would be anything but happy about his win (e.g. China last year). I think Hamilton genuinely believed that he won this fair and square and not by any form of punishment for Nico.

[SectorOne]

way too risky for team orders. Much easier to stay on track but drive slower, let Hamilton make a pass on the inside of T1 and be done with it.

@Phil, i think it´s Malaysia you had in mind.

[Mandrake]

One more thing to add; If Rosberg had received some order to let Hamilton past either by cutting the chicane or otherwise, I bet you would see that Hamilton would be anything but happy about his win (e.g. China last year). I think Hamilton genuinely believed that he won this fair and square and not by any form of punishment for Nico.

Hamilton saw that he closed the gap quite quickly and was probably sure he would have passed Nico anyways, so no need to not be happy about the victory. In Malaysia he was the slower guy and profited from the team order.

When he outbraked himself the first time, yes - he lost some time compared to the cars behind him, but to what extend was Nico aware of how much he lost? He was quite a bit up the road when he did it the first time, so any time gap relative to the cars behind him would either be communicated by him by the team or he might have seen it on his onboard dash (?).

The amount of data drivers get is huge. He will have been told via Radio and the Pitboard that his gap shrunk from 4 seconds to sub 2 seconds.

The reference to Canada is not valid here I think. Racers when driving on the edge often miss a braking point and thus an Apex. The question is what kind of corner we are talking about. Canada and the way the chicane is designed makes it fairly obvious if you miss the braking point as you have to go almost straight. and if you try to make the corner you are in danger of jumping into the wall (as seen with Max Chilton in Monza as well). Now in Monza, you can either take Nico's way, or cut the chicane over the grass or the small bumps. After having lost so much time in the first incident I would have taken any route but the straight one if I was actually in there to win it. The gap to Williams was large enough, it was a Merc internal battle only.

All in all there is quite an imbalance in Merc's decisions. Hamilton ignores team orders twice, no consequences. Rosberg is forced to take the blame for an incident that was a 50/50 situation and gets fined heavily. Merc crumbles under the british media pressure.....German press is much more relaxed in the whole discussion. Therefore I'm not entirely sure there is not something fishy going on.

Other than that, I would have liked to see Bottas in the tow that Daniel Ricciardo had. I'm halfway sure the Williams would have clipped the 370kph. By the way, have they done something to the onboard cameras? The sensation of speed is much better now, in Spa and now Monza again I thought I don't want to sit in that car, tight battles at >300kph and everything is moving so fast....

[mikeerfol]

One more thing to add; If Rosberg had received some order to let Hamilton past either by cutting the chicane or otherwise, I bet you would see that Hamilton would be anything but happy about his win (e.g. China last year). I think Hamilton genuinely believed that he won this fair and square and not by any form of punishment for Nico.

I believe you're talking about Malaysia?

[Just_a_fan]

so why is it hard to believe that he might have genuinely missed the braking point at Monza for the 2nd time and cut the chicane?

1. Some people just can't accept the simple answer to any question - for them Occam's Razor is anathema.
2. Rosberg fans won't want to believe he would struggle under pressure.
3. Hamilton not-fans won't want to believe that Hamilton could put Rosberg under pressure / win the race without outside assistance.

Take your pick.

Lovers of conspiracy hypotheses will always look for complicated reasons why things happen. I'm of the opinion that for many, the mere fact that "stuff happens" is scary.

[Phil]

Sorry yes, I was indeed talking about Malaysia 2013...

Now in Monza, you can either take Nico's way, or cut the chicane over the grass or the small bumps. After having lost so much time in the first incident I would have taken any route but the straight one if I was actually in there to win it. The gap to Williams was large enough, it was a Merc internal battle only.

If this was the case, why didn't he already attempt to take the chicane when he outbraked himself the first time? At that time, Lewis wasn't behind him, so he had no reason to lose extra time by going straight.

Also - driving over the small bumps - really? And risk damaging your car, the suspension or other parts that might be crucial of you finishing instead of outrightly DNFing? Or going over the grass and perhaps be on a coliding path with your team-mate not to mention having potentially dirty and slippery tyres? Or he could have turned in late, flat spotted his fronts in the process, missed the apex and compromised T2. No - he cut the chicane because it was a known quantity and a relative safe passage without compromising his car or his race.

I just think the whole thing is a bit far fetched, really. There are heaps of ways that would have been more effective if he wanted to give up his win - but more importantly, judging by how the season has unfolded, the internal team battle with Lewis and the resulting incident in Spa, I don't see why Rosberg would give up his win and then be relatively relaxed after the race. If he was made to give up that place, I think he'd be fuming, as I would be in his position. More so; if the team had made me give up my place, I would do it in the most obvious manner for anyone to see and realize.

But instead, it seems anyone is free to see what they want to see. The Toto's smile is just the perfect example; yet there are indications that the 'smile' shown on television was a slightly delayed broadcast, yet it's being used to underline why Rosberg supposedly followed team orders or had a change of heart and wanted to gift his team-mate and WDC competitor an extra win. With all due respect, this may be F1 - but it's certainly not the WWE (World Wrestling Entertainment).

[iotar__]

If this was the case, why didn't he already attempt to take the chicane when he outbraked himself the first time? At that time, Lewis wasn't behind him, so he had no reason to lose extra time by going straight.
Also - driving over the small bumps - really? And risk damaging your car, the suspension or other parts that might be crucial of you finishing instead of outrightly DNFing? Or going over the grass and perhaps be on a coliding path with your team-mate not to mention having potentially dirty and slippery tyres? Or he could have turned in late, flat spotted his fronts in the process, missed the apex and compromised T2. No - he cut the chicane because it was a known quantity and a relative safe passage without compromising his car or his race.
I just think the whole thing is a bit far fetched, really. There are heaps of ways that would have been more effective if he wanted to give up his win - but more importantly, judging by how the season has unfolded, the internal team battle with Lewis and the resulting incident in Spa, I don't see why Rosberg would give up his win and then be relatively relaxed after the race. If he was made to give up that place, I think he'd be fuming, as I would be in his position. More so; if the team had made me give up my place, I would do it in the most obvious manner for anyone to see and realize.
But instead, it seems anyone is free to see what they want to see. The Toto's smile is just the perfect example; yet there are indications that the 'smile' shown on television was a slightly delayed broadcast, yet it's being used to underline why Rosberg supposedly followed team orders or had a change of heart and wanted to gift his team-mate and WDC competitor an extra win. With all due respect, this may be F1 - but it's certainly not the WWE (World Wrestling Entertainment).

Problem is not what happened but bad arguments about it like Whiting's. The fact that no one had problems with this chicane in the race unlike practice works against Merc/Rosb not for him. Let's leave this part. Here it's the same, about bold parts:
1. No there are no heaps of ways to do that. Obvious one is a botched pitstop but that would be just team messing up not racing and deserved win, technical problems = same. If they wanted to do it in an obvious way we wouldn't have this argument at all (100% theoretical). Image and "we let them race" matters to Merc so no obvious way.

2. Or the opposite like in Monaco? The problem is what we saw was bad, that's unquestionable. We saw a driver in a dominant car not being able to make a corner and going straight without huge lock-ups or technical problems, twice - unlike all the others drivers that were able to find braking points. For several people it did look weird - Stewart, Surer etc. because it was weird. Then we saw lies or very amplified truth about pressure. 1. there was not that much of a direct pressure in both instances, especially the first one with Massa, pressure would be an overtaking attempt. 2. How would that pressure work on this one corner only? Why not at Parabolica? You can't get braking right in one chicane, brake earlier, lose some time there and keep the lead, make your opponent work for the win, let him make mistakes too, especially after Spa, no gifts. Bad arguments not the event itself, I remember Rosberg doing that last season chasing NH but maybe that's what they know and want us to think .

As for F1=wrestling, two Magnussen penalties and lack of penalties for Hamiltonx1,5, Vettelx2, Raikkonenx2, Alonso is not enough? Bahrain, Hungary 2013 etc. not enough? OK, another Whiting/stewards Monza brilliance. According to this https://translate.google.com/translate? ... 93767.html they were asking Perez (then withdrew it) to give position back to Button for forcing off track, hmm. Told you they wanted to get rid of Perez too but it's hard to give penalty for being a victim of something they gave penalty for earlier. -Give it back willingly, my pal Jenson complained, - No, - Damn... still worth trying.

[turbof1]

I think we can and should believe that it was a honest mistake from Rosberg, rather then something set up by Mercedes. Phil is right: you could orchestrate a scenario that makes it completely believable, there are numerous scenario's: let both drivers drive to a target time and letting Hamilton blast through with DRS, a power handicap, a bogged pitstop,... .

Let's just assume for a small moment that Mercedes did intent to do such a thing. Then why in earth would they do something that risky? The short cut through the chicane is littered with boards; hit one of those and youe front wing is damaged. Even if the intent was to get Hamilton in front, the team target still is first and second. Risking Rosberg's car isn't part of that.

Also, such a scenario would needed to be drawn up in the case of Hamilton ending up one place behind Rosberg. Statistics show Hamilton to be the better starter. And there was absolutely no benefit in compromising Rosberg while Hamilton was still behind Massa. Yes you readed it: it would have been completely and utterly pointless for Rosberg to go off intentionally when Massa was still inbetween the mercedes duo. The only and really only conclusion that is there, is that Rosberg went off because he braked too late. On his own for all clarity. Note that this also was not under pressure. That makes it very plausible for him making the same mistake under pressure. And so he did.

People, we had conspiracy theories come by that had a much bigger believability factor then this nonsence. Please let's put it to bed, you had your fun.

[Shrieker]

So a fellow forum member on another forum provided a video including shot's from the heli and Rosberg's onboard looking backwards at the time of his second slalom. I'm almost entirely convinced that it was a genuine mistake.

Nico himself said he could've made the corner but judging from the video i suspect Hamilton would've been right on his tail on the exit, and Nico would've been left with a flat spotted front right with quite a long way to go.

[djos]

I don't think there's anything sus about the mistake either - one must also remember that he had made the same mistake on a previous lap.

From watching both errors it seemed to me that Nico was too far to the left and verging on having tires on the grass. We all know that there is less grip on the painted white lines and IMO this contributes to Nico not being able to pull up properly for the chicane.

[iotar__]

OK, I'll clarify this nonsense.
If Whiting and Warwick (quotes somewhere earlier) dismissed Rosberg's giving up position and going straight twice in the race based on people making mistakes there in practice (when you practice braking ) why they even investigated Monaco? People were making a lot of mistakes there in practice so why was it worthy of your time there and Monza is a nonsense conspiracy. For me Monaco looked much clearer, visibly and because unpredictable crash and damage was a possiblity (barriers).

Edit: it would probably help if arrogant Merc bothered to informed how they punished Rosberg for doing what they preach about - racing in Spa.

[mikeerfol]

Here's what Rosberg said in Italian before the podium

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/09/12/f ... ranslation

[mrluke]

The team who have access to Rosberg's full telemetry were unhappy about Monaco qualifying.