Verstappen/Vergne blather

[knabbel]

Max Verstappen will drive in FP1 in stead of JEV:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/29408212

[turbof1]

I'm really feeling for the guy. First has to hear he's going to be dropped for someone who -excuse my words- barely got rid of diapers, then does possible the best race of his career in Singapore, only to be rewarded with an FP1 sit-out. Atleast give Kvyat's seat for that; JEV deserves to be treated better and Kvyat still has chances to prove himself.

[kptaylor]

I'm really feeling for the guy. First has to hear he's going to be dropped for someone who -excuse my words- barely got rid of diapers, then does possible the best race of his career in Singapore, only to be rewarded with an FP1 sit-out. Atleast give Kvyat's seat for that; JEV deserves to be treated better and Kvyat still has chances to prove himself.

Agree, the focus should be on constructor standings. Caterham seems to have the same problem - focusing on the guy bringing the sponsorship money, not the guy capable of finishing further up the grid.

[Manoah2u]

I'm really feeling for the guy. First has to hear he's going to be dropped for someone who -excuse my words- barely got rid of diapers, then does possible the best race of his career in Singapore, only to be rewarded with an FP1 sit-out. Atleast give Kvyat's seat for that; JEV deserves to be treated better and Kvyat still has chances to prove himself.

Agree, the focus should be on constructor standings. Caterham seems to have the same problem - focusing on the guy bringing the sponsorship money, not the guy capable of finishing further up the grid.

sorry guys but that's nonsense. If JEV really 'earned' something, he would have had it by now. I remember the craze last year about Daniel getting the RedBull seat over JEV, and look what happens; Daniel pulverises Vettel and JEV has trouble keeping up with a friggin russian Rookie. So now he suddenly does a 'decent drive' because he suddenly wakes up that he's gonna be ditched at the end of the year (something the entire F1 world has been seeing coming from day 1) and now he'll show 'em who's boss to get a seat for next year?

Arrogance at best, i'm not saying JEV can't drive, but he's like another dozen. Remember the previous Toro Rosso drivers? No, not really, they slipped the mind. Sebastien Buemi, Sebastien Bourdais, Jaime Alguersuari (who dug his own grave), and offcourse who can forget the huge fails called Liuzzi and 'Scott Speed'......seriously, the only guys that stood out at Toro Rosso were Sebastien Vettel and Daniel Ricciardo. The 'others' have done 'decent' drives (ok, liuzzi and speed were worse then decent), but that's it.
And with all do respect, JEV has not shown anything above 'decent'. And there are plenty 'decent' drivers around, so, bye bye JEV.

Good luck finding a 'decent drive' as a 'decent driver' in a 'decent team' versus other 'decent drivers' that can do the same and perhaps even be better marketable, have better or more sponsors, whatever. The guy doesn't even have a manager.

Can't leave a tear for JEV, he should be grateful for his opportunity in F1 given by RedBull. It's the redbull-deal, redbull-way. You good enough for a F1 seat, we give you a torro rosso seat and you'll show what you can do for a couple of years. If you are good enough for a RedBull seat, you might just get that. If not, then we've given you the opportunity to drive in F1, and you have had the chance to make a name and get attention from other teams.

Bottas gets attention. Ricciardo does. I'd say even Kvyat gets attention. IF there is anyone to blame, it's number one, and that's JEV himself.

And Verstappen getting the seat equals 1: The Redbull programme standard, 2: Redbull indeed giving opportunities that people might 'deserve', and talk about age all you want, NEVER ever has there been a young driver who got this chance, despite there are PLENTY 17 year olds in racing. Therefor, Verstappen stands out and has something and done something to get the attention of Redbull/Toro Rosso.

Stop the hating for crying out loud.

I'd hope to see Verstappen completely destroy JEV's times AND Kvyats times. Just so the haters and nay-sayers can put a sock in it and realise their nonsense. Jeesh.

[Fulcrum]

NEVER ever has there been a young driver who got this chance, despite there are PLENTY 17 year olds in racing. Therefor, Verstappen stands out and has something and done something to get the attention of Redbull/Toro Rosso.

Well, the evidence certainly doesn't support your argument. Yes, he has won some feeder series but this is much the same as every other driver who has managed to get a proper berth (not paid their way) in F1.

Somehow you are conflating the fact that he is 17 and has been selected with him being an extra-ordinary talent. At this point the only thing that is unusual is his selection, which a lot of people are rightly unimpressed with.

[Manoah2u]

NEVER ever has there been a young driver who got this chance, despite there are PLENTY 17 year olds in racing. Therefor, Verstappen stands out and has something and done something to get the attention of Redbull/Toro Rosso.

Well, the evidence certainly doesn't support your argument. Yes, he has won some feeder series but this is much the same as every other driver who has managed to get a proper berth (not paid their way) in F1.

Somehow you are conflating the fact that he is 17 and has been selected with him being an extra-ordinary talent. At this point the only thing that is unusual is his selection, which a lot of people are rightly unimpressed with.

I guess you must be reading other realities than i do, becuase if anything, everyone around him is impressed about his results, achievements and racecraft which justifies his selection being indeed an extra-ordinary talent. And because of this extra-ordinary talent which his companion 17-year olds have not achieved, he stands out. He stands out because his results, telemetry and racecraft upon research by people who investigate and can value this data realise this 17 year old far exceeds the expectations they have of much older 'rookies'. In other words, they have decided he has more potential than 19 and 20 year old racers whom have been through many other series.
There is no way a highly critical man like Helmut Marko would ever put somebody in a F1 seat over somebody else if he genuinly did not have the evidence to support this 'wild' decision.

Yes, vitantonio liuzzi won some feeder series. so did pastor maldonado. somehow they are or have been in F1.
If you look at the clumsy and dangerous errors made by Pastor then you really start wondering the actual use and benefit
of current 'feeder' series. So again, why would a driver need to go through some useless years at boring series that add nothing but a tiny bit of more experience, and waste some years and in the end never get a seat?

[turbof1]

I guess you must be reading other realities than i do, becuase if anything, everyone around him is impressed about his results, achievements and racecraft which justifies his selection being indeed an extra-ordinary talent. And because of this extra-ordinary talent which his companion 17-year olds have not achieved, he stands out. He stands out because his results, telemetry and racecraft upon research by people who investigate and can value this data realise this 17 year old far exceeds the expectations they have of much older 'rookies'. In other words, they have decided he has more potential than 19 and 20 year old racers whom have been through many other series.

He barely has results. He has done, up until now, 9 events in the open wheel series. Not in the higher tiers, but in the openings series Formula 3. Yes agreed: he has made a big impression there, but it's still something different then F1.

About JEV earning something: you know as good as I do that Torro Rosso is a junior development team. It's not matter of earning it, but a matter of racing 3 years for the team, see if there's a spot free at the senior red bull team and if not you get automatically the boot.

The issue I'm having most of all is that he is a capable driver, and it's disrespectful now to give his FP1 seat to Max. It comes across like "well, you won't be around much longer anyway so what does it matter that you are going to miss FP1.". That's F1, yes, and more often then not ethics have to make room for this kind of practices unfortunaly.

You might not remember him after this, but I think I will, as the guy having more bad luck then what not. I do hope he finds somewhere a decent seat next year in F1.

[hollus]

Well, Marko has often said that Toro Rosso is not there to let good racers race, not even very good ones. They are only interested in a future world champion, since they have a current one. And the second it looks like you are not WC material you are out. It is brutal, but at least it is done openly. Respect or gratitude debts do not come into it. He won't be around much longer, so it doesn't matter if he misses FP1. Indeed.

[turbof1]

Well, Marko has often said that Toro Rosso is not there to let good racers race, not even very good ones. They are only interested in a future world champion, since they have a current one. And the second it looks like you are not WC material you are out. It is brutal, but at least it is done openly. Respect or gratitude debts do not come into it. He won't be around much longer, so it doesn't matter if he misses FP1. Indeed.

I can agree with that. Still, as a spectator I feel pity for the guy, but no need to continue on it.

Mclaren thinks it'll be a difficult weekend:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116075

[SectorOne]

sorry guys but that's nonsense. If JEV really 'earned' something, he would have had it by now. I remember the craze last year about Daniel getting the RedBull seat over JEV, and look what happens; Daniel pulverises Vettel and JEV has trouble keeping up with a friggin russian Rookie.

What?

Over the two years Ricciardo and Vergne drove together the difference was 1 point.
You point out that Ricciardo is "pulverizing" Vettel but ignores the above.
They beat each other by 6 and 7 points respectively. Vergne while he was a rookie.
That would be like Kvyat beating Vergne by 6-7 points this year. Do you have any grasp on how huge that would be?

Then you make a claim that he has trouble keeping up with a "frigging Russian rookie" when he´s got over twice the points of Kvyat.
Not to mention it could have been even more when he was in for another 6th place in Monaco.

Also looking at RIC/VER best result in a race, Vergne beat him in both years. First racking up three 8th places to Ricciardo´s 4 9th places. Second year Vergne got home in 6th. Ricciardo´s best result that year was 7th.

Good job with the propaganda, the media must have gotten you really good.
I´m genuinely amazed at how overlooked Vergne is.
He´s already proven he can go toe to toe with Ricciardo (the guy who now obliterates Vettel most of the time)

[Richard]

Agree, the focus should be on constructor standings. Caterham seems to have the same problem - focusing on the guy bringing the sponsorship money, not the guy capable of finishing further up the grid.

It's no good having the faster driver if you don't have enough cash to develop next year's car or finish the season.

[MercedesAMGSpy]

I guess you must be reading other realities than i do, becuase if anything, everyone around him is impressed about his results, achievements and racecraft which justifies his selection being indeed an extra-ordinary talent. And because of this extra-ordinary talent which his companion 17-year olds have not achieved, he stands out. He stands out because his results, telemetry and racecraft upon research by people who investigate and can value this data realise this 17 year old far exceeds the expectations they have of much older 'rookies'. In other words, they have decided he has more potential than 19 and 20 year old racers whom have been through many other series.

He barely has results. He has done, up until now, 9 events in the open wheel series. Not in the higher tiers, but in the openings series Formula 3. Yes agreed: he has made a big impression there, but it's still something different then F1.

About JEV earning something: you know as good as I do that Torro Rosso is a junior development team. It's not matter of earning it, but a matter of racing 3 years for the team, see if there's a spot free at the senior red bull team and if not you get automatically the boot.

The issue I'm having most of all is that he is a capable driver, and it's disrespectful now to give his FP1 seat to Max. It comes across like "well, you won't be around much longer anyway so what does it matter that you are going to miss FP1.". That's F1, yes, and more often then not ethics have to make room for this kind of practices unfortunaly.

You might not remember him after this, but I think I will, as the guy having more bad luck then what not. I do hope he finds somewhere a decent seat next year in F1.

He has beaten 31y old karting drivers and former F1 drivers in different categories. After karting he didn't go to the easy option FR2.0, but chose the stronger F3 series, beating guys with much more experience in his rookie season. Verstappen and Ocon are special drivers and they will impress the formula one world sooner rather than later.

[Gaz.]

Do any of the RBR/STR drivers have managers? From a quick google it suggests only Couthard had a manager for his entire time at RBR. Webber was managed by Flav but then managed himself. Buemi didn't have a manager at TR but has since signed to GP Sports after leaving F1 full time.

[Glyn]

Agree, the focus should be on constructor standings. Caterham seems to have the same problem - focusing on the guy bringing the sponsorship money, not the guy capable of finishing further up the grid.

It's no good having the faster driver if you don't have enough cash to develop next year's car or finish the season.

It's no good being in f1 if you don't have the cash.....

[Fulcrum]

NEVER ever has there been a young driver who got this chance, despite there are PLENTY 17 year olds in racing. Therefor, Verstappen stands out and has something and done something to get the attention of Redbull/Toro Rosso.

Well, the evidence certainly doesn't support your argument. Yes, he has won some feeder series but this is much the same as every other driver who has managed to get a proper berth (not paid their way) in F1.

Somehow you are conflating the fact that he is 17 and has been selected with him being an extra-ordinary talent. At this point the only thing that is unusual is his selection, which a lot of people are rightly unimpressed with.

I guess you must be reading other realities than i do, becuase if anything, everyone around him is impressed about his results, achievements and racecraft which justifies his selection being indeed an extra-ordinary talent. And because of this extra-ordinary talent which his companion 17-year olds have not achieved, he stands out. He stands out because his results, telemetry and racecraft upon research by people who investigate and can value this data realise this 17 year old far exceeds the expectations they have of much older 'rookies'. In other words, they have decided he has more potential than 19 and 20 year old racers whom have been through many other series.
There is no way a highly critical man like Helmut Marko would ever put somebody in a F1 seat over somebody else if he genuinly did not have the evidence to support this 'wild' decision.

Yes, vitantonio liuzzi won some feeder series. so did pastor maldonado. somehow they are or have been in F1.
If you look at the clumsy and dangerous errors made by Pastor then you really start wondering the actual use and benefit
of current 'feeder' series. So again, why would a driver need to go through some useless years at boring series that add nothing but a tiny bit of more experience, and waste some years and in the end never get a seat?

Everyone around him happens to have a vested interest in him, namely: his father, his manager, Red Bull, his current F3 team. None of these sources can be considered objective or unbiased for fairly obvious reasons.

As for your assessment that the telemetry is in his favour, MAYBE. We can't know this though, so using it as a defence of the lad is another point not in evidence.

And Helmut Marko has cried wolf before with other young guns who have all been mercilessly sacrificed on the alter of Toro Rosso, so once again I don't find his opinion particularly meaningful with respect to pinpointing future world champions.