2014 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka

[Jano11]

2. Not deploying the SC did not cause the accident. There was double yellow, under SC the cars would not have been slower there.

No but it could have helped avoid it.

In Monaco they have no space at all, but a big crane in every corner. There one or two marshals go to the car, put the car on the crane and the car is away...no tractor other cars can run into, no tractor which overruns the marshals, no need to stay near the car for the marshals and stabilize the car on the tractor. On other tracks you never see these much saver cranes.

They should mandate this on all tracks, would make everything easier.
I would go one step further, mandate a standard attachment point on each car used to pick it up with the crane and reduces the need for marshals to venture out to the stranded car.

Why are we discussing it? They already do it in the WEC. So if it works there, it can work here.

Exactly.

You should not miss, that the system is heavily criticized in WEC and that we had a heavy accident under yellow in LeMans due to abrupt slowing down on the straight.

If you refer to the one where the Toyota was involved, I do not think it was due to an automatic slow down system for safety, it was more due to poor visibility, if I remember right, might be wrong though.

[timbo]

In Monaco they have no space at all, but a big crane in every corner. There one or two marshals go to the car, put the car on the crane and the car is away...no tractor other cars can run into, no tractor which overruns the marshals, no need to stay near the car for the marshals and stabilize the car on the tractor. On other tracks you never see these much saver cranes.

They should mandate this on all tracks, would make everything easier.
I would go one step further, mandate a standard attachment point on each car used to pick it up with the crane and reduces the need for marshals to venture out to the stranded car.

Most tracks have big runoffs. Cars can stop on all kinds of places, so there is no way to deal with all (or even most) cars without some kind of mobile lifter.

[Shakeman]

There is a close up picture of Bianchi on Twitter and at least his helmet is intact. I had feared another Maria de Villota type accident. Maybe that's a piece of good news at this time.

[basti313]

In Monaco they have no space at all, but a big crane in every corner. There one or two marshals go to the car, put the car on the crane and the car is away...no tractor other cars can run into, no tractor which overruns the marshals, no need to stay near the car for the marshals and stabilize the car on the tractor. On other tracks you never see these much saver cranes.

They should mandate this on all tracks, would make everything easier.
I would go one step further, mandate a standard attachment point on each car used to pick it up with the crane and reduces the need for marshals to venture out to the stranded car.

Most tracks have big runoffs. Cars can stop on all kinds of places, so there is no way to deal with all (or even most) cars without some kind of mobile lifter.

Of course. But with a normal 40t-crane you can easily reach an area with a 44m diameter. More than enough for most runoffs and, thus, for most accidents.
The idea with the standard attachment points is also very good. Go out, put the crane on the point, go in...much less risky.

[lillschumi]

Edit:deleted

[Jano11]

In Monaco they have no space at all, but a big crane in every corner. There one or two marshals go to the car, put the car on the crane and the car is away...no tractor other cars can run into, no tractor which overruns the marshals, no need to stay near the car for the marshals and stabilize the car on the tractor. On other tracks you never see these much saver cranes.

They should mandate this on all tracks, would make everything easier.
I would go one step further, mandate a standard attachment point on each car used to pick it up with the crane and reduces the need for marshals to venture out to the stranded car.

Most tracks have big runoffs. Cars can stop on all kinds of places, so there is no way to deal with all (or even most) cars without some kind of mobile lifter.

As Basti mentioned, there are cranes out there that can easily cover every F1 circuit, it is only a question of willing to invest in them.

[Jano11]

Of course. But with a normal 40t-crane you can easily reach an area with a 44m diameter. More than enough for most runoffs and, thus, for most accidents.
The idea with the standard attachment points is also very good. Go out, put the crane on the point, go in...much less risky.

There are solutions to everything, what is needed is the will to implement them.
Marshals will still be needed in cases where the driver can not get out of the car on their own and other specific situations, however they would be much less exposed.

[SiLo]

Certain tracks have the cranes, and the cars really don't weigh much so they can get very good reach. You don't even need that many of them, just enough to cover the corners that we usually see most crashes.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Wouldn't it be quiet easy to have an automatic speed limiter once double yellow is shown? As soon as double yellow is inforced Charlie pushes a butto and all cars switch to the boxing speed limit right away. Not to difficult from a technical point of view.

But probably too sudden for drivers, imagine being in a corner and they cut your power...

Your car would slow down. What's the problem?

Lack of understanding of how racing cars work. If you cut the power in the middle of a high speed turn the car can spin. Look up off power oversteer.

A better solution could be to just disengage the clutch automatically, this would cause no engine braking moment at the wheels.
And warn the driver with a flashing display 5 seconds ahead of the action!

Could do the opposite, and cause the car to suddenly understeer straight on.

Are you guys aware of pit limiter speed? Even at those speeds, with the kind of impact Bianchi had, the outcome probably would have been similar.

There are pictures and videos, and I wont post them, but he went under the rear of the tractor, the roll hoop was completely ripped off to below the level of his helmet.

[mrluke]

How many head injuries before covered cockpits?

Would that helped? Given the speed and specific kind of impact, I'd presume that a cockpit cover would have been shattered.

Even if it did shatter, it would still have absorbed some of the energy that was instead delivered directly the drivers helmet.

It wouldn't need to be completely indestructible to have reduced the injuries sustained.

IIRC the FIA tested some fighter cockpits by firing wheels at them at over 100mph, they took the impact well and bounced the wheel off.

[Afterburner]

Certain tracks have the cranes, and the cars really don't weigh much so they can get very good reach. You don't even need that many of them, just enough to cover the corners that we usually see most crashes.

You need cranes not only for crashes but also for reliability problems, you can't cover a 7km circuit with fixed cranes, it would be just insane.

Regarding 40t cranes, they're very slow and difficult to manage, imagine to put a car in a truck surrounded by trees, advertisement boards, marshals, spectators, etc.

The best option it's limiting every cars speed automatically on yellow flags zone, this would avoid human error by a big margin.

[Jano11]

Lack of understanding of how racing cars work. If you cut the power in the middle of a high speed turn the car can spin. Look up off power oversteer.

Could do the opposite, and cause the car to suddenly understeer straight on.

The drivers should always be in control of the car, however there should be means to limit their speed to safe values,
say they can not accelerate again after the 2nd too last corner before the accident site, and following that they should reduce their speed to 60 km/h before the next corner, that is all that is needed.

Again this is no spaceship engineering, only needs the will to implement.

[turbof1]

How many head injuries before covered cockpits?

Would that helped? Given the speed and specific kind of impact, I'd presume that a cockpit cover would have been shattered.

Even if it did shatter, it would still have absorbed some of the impact that was instead delivered directly the drivers helmet.

It wouldn't need to be completely indestructible to have reduced the injuries sustained.

IIRC the FIA tested some fighter cockpits by firing wheels at them at over 100mph, they took the impact well and bounced the wheel off.

I was contemplating on that too, but a wheel is something completely different then a straight on crash against such a heavy and unmoveable object like that tractor. A cockpit would have taken little energy out of it.

I do agree it would have helped a tiny bit.

[i70q7m7ghw]

How many head injuries before covered cockpits?

Would that helped? Given the speed and specific kind of impact, I'd presume that a cockpit cover would have been shattered.

Even if it did shatter, it would still have absorbed some of the impact that was instead delivered directly the drivers helmet.

It wouldn't need to be completely indestructible to have reduced the injuries sustained.

IIRC the FIA tested some fighter cockpits by firing wheels at them at over 100mph, they took the impact well and bounced the wheel off.

Not this type of impact. It took the roll hoop clean off. The car made contact with the barrier on the other side of the tractor.

[Jano11]

You need cranes not only for crashes but also for reliability problems, you can't cover a 7km circuit with fixed cranes, it would be just insane.

Regarding 40t cranes, they're very slow and difficult to manage, imagine to put a car in a truck surrounded by trees, advertisement boards, marshals, spectators, etc.

What trees?
Most tracks have no trees near the track anymore.
Also why putting the car on a truck straight away? They can place it in a specially prepared spot behind the barriers for each pair of corners.

I was contemplating on that too, but a wheel is something completely different then a straight on crash against such a heavy and unmoveable object like that tractor. A cockpit would have taken little energy out of it.

I do agree it would have helped a tiny bit.

Every bit helps in such cases and could be the difference between life and death.
As long as we can not create life, we should do all we can to limit death.