Safety of car recovery (and trucks on circuits)

[JordanThinks]

What is clear with this incident is how multiple failures can align to result in a catastrophic consequence. Some aspects of this crash which I hope will receive some attention are:

1. The wet tarmac runoff area. It appears Bianchi's car was on wet asphalt for the duration of the incident, which would not have provided little friction to reduce the speed of the collision. How can these be improved to better dissipate the energy of the cars in poor conditions.
2. The geometry and operation of recovery vehicles. I disagree with some of the discussion on this matter. The geometry of these vehicles is unacceptable. Even a slow speed impact can cause needless injury. That is not to say that the recovery vehicles must be rendered impractical. It just shows a lack of vision to say that this cannot be improved. Considering also that someone was killed at the Canadian GP shows that the problem must be brought under some scrutiny.
3. Clear driver rules for yellow flag sectors. There seems to be too much room for driver judgement under yellow flag conditions. I think it is completely reasonable to expect the cars to be on the pit lane speed limiter in those sectors and to enforce no passing. Similar penalties for speeding or unsafe entrance into the sector must be considered - there will still be some room for interpretation on the entry into that sector. It might be necessary to eliminate all passing on the entire circuit in the case of double waved yellows with marshals on track.
4. Review of the race directorship. The whole race was plagued by seemingly inert decision making by the race organisers/director. Given that it is not so simple to change the date/time of a race (impossible to decide to host the race the day before) how could it not have been obvious that the race start needed to be delayed?? Why did the safety car come in so late after the second stint? What is the point of the full wet tyres - the safety car came in only minutes away from the condition which suited inters? Why, at the end of the race, when the rain was clearly going to be heavy, did the safety car not get brought out sooner? The people running the show seem to be sleeping.

[Henne]

How about getting the safety car out every time a car has to be towed away when it is still on track.

Whenever a car get left behind in a zone where other can directly see it, get out a safety car, tow that car away, and get the show back on the road.

This would prevent other drivers passing the scene of the accident at a high speed, giving it a lower chance that those might hit the towing vehicles.

[alexx_88]

How about the easiest solution out there that has been said countless times here: put a 60kph limit under yellow-flag zones and enforce it for all the drivers through the ECU?

The idea of sending the safety car out each time someone goes off the track and has to be recovered is crazy. It would mean having at least 3-4 safety car periods per race, all strategy would be thrown out the window and the risk of this accident happening again won't be greatly reduced as it takes about a lap from the moment the safety car is deployed to the moment the cars start to queue behind it. Simply enforcing a speed limit and making sure each driver has to follow it for the same number of times is the best option I can think of.

[aral]

How about getting the safety car out every time a car has to be towed away when it is still on track.

Whenever a car get left behind in a zone where other can directly see it, get out a safety car, tow that car away, and get the show back on the road.

This would prevent other drivers passing the scene of the accident at a high speed, giving it a lower chance that those might hit the towing vehicles.

why bring out a sc every time there is a car off the road? that would result in races being reduced to a series of short sprints. and in the time it takes for a sc to reach tha scene and to have all cars backed up, would take several laps , so really there would be no reduction in the risk.

and to alexx. the sc itself leads the field at 100kph, and even then, you had hamilton complaining that it was going too slow!

[alexx_88]

Obviously, the speed limit can be any decent speed that they find suitable. They could even set it on a 'per-sector' basis, but the key is enforcing it through the ECU, not relying on the drivers to slow down.

[langwadt]

Crashing in a yellow zone should never happen, this time it was the driver that was hurt, but he could just as well have hit a marshals. No amount of padding is going to fix that, neither is a safety car if every one drivers near flat out before queuing up behind it

[Richard]

neither is a safety car if every one drivers near flat out before queuing up behind it

Why is this getting repeated so often?

Nowadays the drivers are told how fast they are allowed to drive by the cockpit display. Drivers are fined for exceeding that speed. Note this is actual car speed, not sector times.

[SectorOne]

How about the easiest solution out there that has been said countless times here: put a 60kph limit under yellow-flag zones and enforce it for all the drivers through the ECU?

Thank you. Some people want to come up with super complex and expensive solutions when there´s much more cost efficient and more rational solutions to the problem.

this is F1, filled with engineers, brilliant minds and some of the best drivers in the world, it´s certainly doable.

Bianchi looks to have went off at around 200 clicks.
With a 60k speed limit he would not have driven straight under a tow truck. I´d be amazed if he would even hit it.
Hell he probably would not have went off in the first place.

[langwadt]

neither is a safety car if every one drivers near flat out before queuing up behind it

Why is this getting repeated so often?

Nowadays the drivers are told how fast they are allowed to drive by the cockpit display. Drivers are fined for exceeding that speed. Note this is actual car speed, not sector times.

where is that written? All I can find is this:

40.7All competing cars must reduce speed and form up in line behind the safety car no more than ten car lengths apart. In order to ensure that drivers reduce speed sufficiently, from the time at which the "SAFETY CAR DEPLOYED" message is shown on the timing monitors until the time that each car crosses the first safety car line for the second time, drivers must stay above the minimum time set by the FIA ECU.

[cma]

How about the easiest solution out there that has been said countless times here: put a 60kph limit under yellow-flag zones and enforce it for all the drivers through the ECU?

Thank you. Some people want to come up with super complex and expensive solutions when there´s much more cost efficient and more rational solutions to the problem.

this is F1, filled with engineers, brilliant minds and some of the best drivers in the world, it´s certainly doable.

Bianchi looks to have went off at around 200 clicks.
With a 60k speed limit he would not have driven straight under a tow truck. I´d be amazed if he would even hit it.
Hell he probably would not have went off in the first place.

In this scenario could a 60kph limit allow tyre temps to reduce so much the ride height lowers a lot causing the car to aquaplane easier with the plank in the water until the temps come back up?

[i70q7m7ghw]

In wet conditions an F1 car aquaplaning at pit limiter speed in to the ballast end of crane would still be pretty nasty. The problem was not so much the speed, but more the fact that the car wasn't slowed down effectively by the impact. Most of the car 'submarined' under the body of the vehicle, the roll hoop structure and the rear of the car were the first structures to make significant contact and slow the car down. Unfortunately, the drivers helmet also made significant contact with the rear of the vehicle.

F1 cars have crash structures designed to absorb impacts in to hard surfaces at high speeds. The issue here, and the issue with the Maria De Villota accident was that these crash structures weren't able to do their job.

Any object hanging high enough for the forward crash structure to pass underneath, but low enough to strike a drivers helmet is a massive danger at any speed.

[Shrieker]

http://www.scientiaweb.com/wp-content/u ... opy-f1.jpg

With all due respect, i don't see how this could've made any difference in Bianchi's situation. The car crashed backwards and the roll hoop was destroyed... Edit: Obviously i was wrong the crash is head on.

Honestly 60 km/h speed limit (or pitlane limiter) and modifications to the crane trucks would solve the problem me thinks.

[Italiano]

With all due respect, i don't see how this could've made any difference in Bianchi's situation. The car crashed backwards and the roll hoop was destroyed...

Honestly 60 km/h speed limit (or pitlane limiter) and modifications to the crane trucks would solve the problem me thinks.

It crashed how? What are you talking about, he plowed straight ahead.

[CBeck113]

I like the idea with the pit lane limiter, since it could be initiated automatically, similar to the way DRS is unlocked. This could be done locally by two marshalls, one before and one after the crash site, to activate and deactivate it. And, in order to avoid tampering (people are always to be handled as biased), the system could be unlocked by CW, then locally activated by the marshalls.

[Ali F1]

Looking at the nose cone damage, front suspension damage and final resting position of the car, Bianchi has had a head on high speed impact with the crane.

I've seen a lot of people quoting that he left the circuit at 200km/h , and the only way he's lost that amount of velocity is clear to see. The roll hoop, bulkhead area underneath the hoop, and the Power Unit has absorbed all of the impact, which is why it has been completely sheared off. Unfortunately Jules' head was also in that region, and it seems as though he has taken the initial impact with the crane.
The low noses of 2014 are a major factor here.

Would you rather flip and walk away (Like Webber has done in many categories) or would you rather submarine in a freak accident and never race again? (I hope to God that Jules fully recovers very soon)

A higher nose would've made contact with the crane and then sent him up in a skyward trajectory (Less chance of a direct blow to the head) or it would've completely dissipated the energy in the same fashion as a tyre wall or an FIA head on impact test.