Would a covered cockpit have helped Bianchi ?

[scuderiafan]

Maybe, but I don't think so. I would imagine that any covered cockpit would've smashed on impact with the tractor and may have taken some energy away from the impact, but unless it had some sort of cage/frame to prevent it from caving in, he would still have a serious injury.

[langwadt]

Or bolted down in the pits/on the grid, and attached with explosive bolts to remove it in an emergency.

I don't buy that the only solution is a windshield at all. Fighter jets have solved the problem of quickly getting rid of a canopy already. I don't see why it's magically harder in this case.

you must be joking.

do fighterjets have ejector seats? yes.

Who said anything about ejector seats?

would that work on F1 cars? no. when a fighter jet is crashed upside down, is the pilot still alive? no. is he able to get out? would be difficult. you want to mount explosives on a F1?

Yes, they already mount plenty of explosives on F1 car - notably the big tank of liquid that the driver sits just in front of. Explosive bolts are a well tested method of breaking this kind of thing apart that work very reliably. Said bolts can be made to separate the cockpit into various sections, and allow it to fall apart, and a driver to climb out just like they would in a current f1 car were it to end up upside down. The idea that this isn't a solved problem is ridiculous.

it is only in Hollywood that gas tanks are explosive

[Gaz.]

Fighter jets aren't in close proximity of a crowd though, even at air shows. Where would this canopy go if a car went spearing off in T1 of Melbourne? That's a lot of people on the other side of the catch fencing.

Is there anything in the technical regs to say that enclosed canopies are illegal? I saw this:

"With the exception of a transparent windscreen, antenna or pitot tubes, no bodywork situated
between the line A-A referred to in Drawing 5 and the secondary roll structure may lie more
than 625mm above the reference plane

There appears to be no maximum measurement for a windscreen.

[bhall II]

I'm not necessarily sold on the idea of using explosive bolts to aid driver egress from a closed cockpit. However, I also don't think the idea is nearly as far-fetched as some have made it out to be.

Mercedes used explosive bolts on the SLS AMG on account of the car's gullwing doors. It's a pretty ho-hum affair when they're put to use, but it does the job.



Some fighter jets, like the Harrier seen below, use mild detonating cord to shatter the plane's canopy immediately prior to pilot ejection. In F1, such an application would eliminate the risk of an errant canopy flying into the stands.





Both are very mature technologies at this point.

[Moose]

it is only in Hollywood that gas tanks are explosive

You're right


Admittedly, fuel tanks have got a lot safer since then, but they absolutely can still do serious damage. They are still much more likely to do serious damage to a driver than some explosive bolts.

Fighter jets aren't in close proximity of a crowd though, even at air shows.

You're massively overestimating how "impressive" an explosive bolt is. These things do not blast the canopy off, they simply use explosives to break the bolt in half. A canopy held on (and together) with explosive bolts would simply appear to fall apart when the bolts fired.

[Manoah2u]

it is only in Hollywood that gas tanks are explosive

You're right
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-WCnacEFlQGo/U ... +scene.jpg

Admittedly, fuel tanks have got a lot safer since then, but they absolutely can still do serious damage. They are still much more likely to do serious damage to a driver than some explosive bolts.

Fighter jets aren't in close proximity of a crowd though, even at air shows.

You're massively overestimating how "impressive" an explosive bolt is. These things do not blast the canopy off, they simply use explosives to break the bolt in half. A canopy held on (and together) with explosive bolts would simply appear to fall apart when the bolts fired.

ah yes and explosive bolts are thankfully faill-proof so a driver won't be roasted in his car, after being baked in a close cockpit without proper cooling entering the cabin.

fairly easy too to get to the driver when he decelerates like jules and is left unconsciouss with a vehicle deprived of any power or energy after the severity of the impact and the driver not being able to push the 'eject' button which is inside the cockpit....

since jetfighter solutions seem like such a good solution let's just take away the driver and put it behind a remote control and call it F1 predator series.

you don't solve a non-existant problem by creating something that only makes it more difficult and dangerous. and the idea of bolts that are strong enough to be popped by explosives yet maintain rigidity to protect during impact is lightly said 'troublesome'.

[FW17]

ah yes and explosive bolts are thankfully faill-proof so a driver won't be roasted in his car, after being baked in a close cockpit without proper cooling entering the cabin.

As in a LMP car the cockpit would be a air conditioned

fairly easy too to get to the driver when he decelerates like jules and is left unconsciouss with a vehicle deprived of any power or energy after the severity of the impact and the driver not being able to push the 'eject' button which is inside the cockpit....

Well the rescue crew can always release the canopy just as they would de-energize the battery pack or put the car on neutral

you don't solve a non-existant problem by creating something that only makes it more difficult and dangerous. and the idea of bolts that are strong enough to be popped by explosives yet maintain rigidity to protect during impact is lightly said 'troublesome'.

I am ot sure how you call this a non existent problem

[turbof1]

you don't solve a non-existant problem by creating something that only makes it more difficult and dangerous.

In that case you should try to convince Henry Surtees of that. Oh wait... he died because of a non-existant problem didn't he?



A canopy should be looked at. It's doubtful that it would have helped Bianchi since the injuries he suffered are due massive deacceleration, but consider how many people that died in open wheel racing in recent years, would have lifed due a canopy.

If a fighter jet can have bolts strong enough to survive high speed impacts with birds, yet the explosives are well enough designed to break the bolts, then this can also be implemented on a F1 car. The technology is there, and it has been proven to be reliable/

[Richard]

A canopy would probably help with loose debris entering the cockpit. The only fatality in top level open wheel racing in recent years was when Surtees was hit by a wheel in F2. The next nearest in F1 was probably Massa hit by a spring, and then various close incidents of cars getting very close to drivers heads. A canopy would have helped with all those.

However, in Bianchi's case the canopy would have to form a crash structure against a rigid object. To my mind that would need a structure more like a roll cage rather than a canopy.

So yes, canopies would have reduced or even avoided the most serious driver accidents in the last two decades of F1, F2, GP2 etc but not Bianchi.

[turbof1]

A canopy would probably help with loose debris entering the cockpit. The only fatality in top level open wheel racing in recent years was when Surtees was hit by a wheel in F2. The next nearest in F1 was probably Massa hit by a spring, and then various close incidents of cars getting very close to drivers heads. A canopy would have helped with all those.

However, in Bianchi's case the canopy would have to form a crash structure against a rigid object. To my mind that would need a structure more like a roll cage rather than a canopy.

So yes, canopies would have reduced or even avoided the most serious driver accidents in the last two decades of F1, F2, GP2 etc but not Bianchi.

It's being said that Dan Wheldon would have survived too with a canopy. Given it was a blunt force trauma to the head by a fence pole, this seems to be likely.

[FW17]

And Maria de volita

And 3 other near misses in the Indy season this year

[seinfeld]

let me say. that Jet cockpit canopies can now withstand hitting a bird at supersonic speeds. because they are made with some sturdy stuff. if you want to see them, there is a video/documentary on building the F-22 . they used coatings such as gold and titanium to get the desired thickness, strength, sturdiness all while being see though and completely refrlecting sunlight as well (no glare) it can be done.

Now if a cockpit like that was installed on the Marussia I think it would have guided the tracker up over it kinda like what the noses now get under a car and flip them over (done twice this year) It may have still broke we wouldnt know. but I think it would have saved Jules.

Looking at the redbull concept car in gran turismo 5/6 I think it looks really good. they would build them. the only issue is having the batteries under the driver in closed cockpit would mean terrible things if the batteries failed and we all remember Kimi raikonen at Malaysia a few years ago for ferrari all that white smoke in closed cockpit would kill someone highly toxic!
Another issue is heat buildup it would easily hit 60 degrees no matter where in the world you would be . so maybe they run an air conditiong compressor and give them 20HP extra to offset the weight/ 5hp drop from the load on the engine

[turbof1]

Cooling shouldn't be a big issue, you can always mandate that, and the options doing so are endless. Moreover, the drag of such a cooling solution would probably be more then enough offset by the drag reduction from the canopy.

Of course, at low speed the problem is at its worst, but I still believe solutions are possible.

[FW17]

All closed LMP cara have to run air conditioning

[Gaz.]

A canopy would probably help with loose debris entering the cockpit. The only fatality in top level open wheel racing in recent years was when Surtees was hit by a wheel in F2. The next nearest in F1 was probably Massa hit by a spring, and then various close incidents of cars getting very close to drivers heads. A canopy would have helped with all those.

However, in Bianchi's case the canopy would have to form a crash structure against a rigid object. To my mind that would need a structure more like a roll cage rather than a canopy.

So yes, canopies would have reduced or even avoided the most serious driver accidents in the last two decades of F1, F2, GP2 etc but not Bianchi.

It's being said that Dan Wheldon would have survived too with a canopy. Given it was a blunt force trauma to the head by a fence pole, this seems to be likely.

Wheldon's car had the roll hoop ripped off, the damage to his car was very similar to Bianchi's. I am assuming the pole would have cleaved a canopy off with the rest of the upper body work.