Mercedes abyss - 2014 & Ciro's Comedian Backalley

[GitanesBlondes]

Split from the engine unfreeze debate.

Just when we thought it was safe because Brawn had left Zetchse then let two Austrians run the team ....

_________________________________________________

There is no real world benefit to spending half a billion USD on a Formula 1 program.

I'd love to know how the shareholders sit by and watch this type of money being pissed away with no benefit to be had.

Sure they will dress it up as a marketing exercise, but this doesn't make me want to run out and buy a Mercedes since what they do in F1 has no real world relevance...not even a supposed "road relevant" V6 hybrid engine has any meaning. I never watched F1 for road relevance. I watched it because it was about outrageous engines, and outrageous cars.

I also do wonder why Zetchse is letting two Austrians run the team.

[dans79]

There is no real world benefit to spending half a billion USD on a Formula 1 program.

I'd love to know how the shareholders sit by and watch this type of money being pissed away with no benefit to be had.

Sure they will dress it up as a marketing exercise, but this doesn't make me want to run out and buy a Mercedes since what they do in F1 has no real world relevance...

You would be amazed what companies will spend on marketing though, look what big tobacco used to spend on auto sports.
The other thing to remember is that Joe shmoe, isn't very smart and it takes very little to convince him to hand over his money.

[turbof1]

You would be amazed what companies will spend on marketing though, look what big tobacco used to spend on auto sports.
The other thing to remember is that Joe shmoe, isn't very smart and it takes very little to convince him to hand over his money.

*still is spending; philip morris still make multi-hundred million dollar deals with ferrari for suggestive advertising.

[dans79]

You would be amazed what companies will spend on marketing though, look what big tobacco used to spend on auto sports.
The other thing to remember is that Joe shmoe, isn't very smart and it takes very little to convince him to hand over his money.

*still is spending; philip morris still make multi-hundred million dollar deals with ferrari for suggestive advertising.

good point.

I remember when the NASCAR championship was called the "Winston Cup", and 3/4 of the field had a tobacco or alcohol manufacture as the major sponsor.

[GitanesBlondes]

There is no real world benefit to spending half a billion USD on a Formula 1 program.

I'd love to know how the shareholders sit by and watch this type of money being pissed away with no benefit to be had.

Sure they will dress it up as a marketing exercise, but this doesn't make me want to run out and buy a Mercedes since what they do in F1 has no real world relevance...

You would be amazed what companies will spend on marketing though, look what big tobacco used to spend on auto sports.
The other thing to remember is that Joe shmoe, isn't very smart and it takes very little to convince him to hand over his money.

Except as it pertains to Formula 1, sponsorship has become more difficult to find.

Most large companies have already made the decision that F1 presents a not so good marketing opportunity. There's little value to be had from F1 sponsorships.

Mercedes thinking this is all giving them some good marketing value is misguided thinking at best, and delusional at worst. This whole thing was Zetsche's pet project which would explain why they continue fielding a team that has continued to cost more money every year in spite of the assurances Brawn and Haug gave when the team was acquired.

If this were really about engineering and benefit to Mercedes, they'd be out there fielding LMP1 cars at Le Mans. Ingolstadt and Stuttgart aren't in F1 because there is zero value to being there. That's why I don't see this as being anything more than some sort of expensive vanity project for Mercedes.

[dans79]

Mercedes thinking this is all giving them some good marketing value is misguided thinking at best, and delusional at worst.

lol, I'd like to see you prove this point of view.

[SectorOne]

You would be amazed what companies will spend on marketing though, look what big tobacco used to spend on auto sports.

Or just look at Red Bull. They bought not one but two Formula 1 teams to promote an energy drink.

[kooleracer]

There is no real world benefit to spending half a billion USD on a Formula 1 program.

I'd love to know how the shareholders sit by and watch this type of money being pissed away with no benefit to be had.

Sure they will dress it up as a marketing exercise, but this doesn't make me want to run out and buy a Mercedes since what they do in F1 has no real world relevance...not even a supposed "road relevant" V6 hybrid engine has any meaning. I never watched F1 for road relevance. I watched it because it was about outrageous engines, and outrageous cars.

I also do wonder why Zetchse is letting two Austrians run the team.

I'd love to know how the shareholders sit by and watch this type of money being pissed away with no benefit to be had.

Answer: Because shareholders like value for money. Mercedes only compete in DTM and F1. They compete in DTM mainly for the local market. VW Group,BMW and Daimler are fighting for costumers and saying to a costumer look our brand has beaten the compitation in a straight fight is the easiest way to convince future buyers. Because the price difference of a A4, 3-series or C-class is really small. It isn't a coincidence the three manufacturers use their most sold model in the series( M4 and RS5 based on bmw 3-series and Audi renamed A5, used to be A4).

Mercedes use F1 as a platform for many things its not only about road relevance (knowledge transfer), its about showcasing the core values of the brand, trying to connect with costumers that are in to racing old or new (they added AMG to promote the racing part of Mercedes). Its about giving the brand a worldwide presence and also of course about showcasing their race pedigree. If a rich guy has 100.000 dollars to spend and he is presented a RS5, BMW M5 or C63-AMG and he hasn't made up is mind. Seeing a add with Mercedes F1 world championship and a C63-AMG i''m sure he will buy a Mercedes instead of the other brands. Not everyone goes through the spreadsheet of specs, especially rich guys they just want a quick car. And its working for Mercedes, AMG is growing year by year.

Why Lauda and Wolff are in charge? HWA AMG AG is co-owned by Wolff and Toto has ran the DTM program form 2007 with succes (business and race management skills). Lauda knows what is needed to create a successful racing team because he has been racing for them, also Lauda is a good bussiness man knows how to maximize recources he did it with laudaAIR. Lauda was also in the management of Jaguer F1 team, so he also knows how NOT to run a F1 team.

And about road relevance, LMP1-H isn't a production based engine class. So why people seem to think that LMP1-H has more road relevance then F1 is beside me. Road relevance is about the philosophy of making the most fuel efficient racing cars. People think that the Hybrid part of F1 is bolt on part and Ferrari, Renault and Mercedes use the same part. Or that the battery pack all use the same specs. A lot of R&D has gone in to the project. When Mercedes starts a new hybrid project, that knowledge that they gained in F1 will help the roadcar division. It's not about swapping parts from the racing cars into the roadcar.

[GitanesBlondes]

Mercedes thinking this is all giving them some good marketing value is misguided thinking at best, and delusional at worst.

lol, I'd like to see you prove this point of view.

Take a look at most people who drive Mercedes Benz or think of purchasing a Mercedes.

They don't care about auto racing.

I live in an area that mimics various others across the planet where the Tri Star is seen as nothing more than a form of currency to be used in an effort to boost one's social/class status. Prestige sells Mercedes more than anything.

Not that this is a scientific poll --and it is from 2007-2008-- but over 5000 votes were logged in this questionnaire on a Mercedes forum. Prestige and looks combined make up almost 50% of the vote. With that kind of a sample size, I'd consider that to be a decent indicator of why people buy a Mercedes even into today.

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/mercede ... cedes.html

Besides do you actually think all the soccer moms rolling around suburbia in their ML or GL class Benz's give a crap about F1?

For adage of "what wins on Sunday, sells on Monday" to have a chance of holding true, F1 would have to be racing cars that actually are road cars.

[GitanesBlondes]

Answer: Because shareholders like value for money. Mercedes only compete in DTM and F1. They compete in DTM mainly for the local market. VW Group,BMW and Daimler are fighting for costumers and saying to a costumer look our brand has beaten the compitation in a straight fight is the easiest way to convince future buyers. Because the price difference of a A4, 3-series or C-class is really small. It isn't a coincidence the three manufacturers use their most sold model in the series( M4 and RS5 based on bmw 3-series and Audi renamed A5, used to be A4).

Mercedes use F1 as a platform for many things its not only about road relevance (knowledge transfer), its about showcasing the core values of the brand, trying to connect with costumers that are in to racing old or new (they added AMG to promote the racing part of Mercedes). Its about giving the brand a worldwide presence and also of course about showcasing their race pedigree. If a rich guy has 100.000 dollars to spend and he is presented a RS5, BMW M5 or C63-AMG and he hasn't made up is mind. Seeing a add with Mercedes F1 world championship and a C63-AMG i''m sure he will buy a Mercedes instead of the other brands. Not everyone goes through the spreadsheet of specs, especially rich guys they just want a quick car. And its working for Mercedes, AMG is growing year by year.

Why Lauda and Wolff are in charge? HWA AMG AG is co-owned by Wolff and Toto has ran the DTM program form 2007 with succes (business and race management skills). Lauda knows what is needed to create a successful racing team because he has been racing for them, also Lauda is a good bussiness man knows how to maximize recources he did it with laudaAIR. Lauda was also in the management of Jaguer F1 team, so he also knows how NOT to run a F1 team.

And about road relevance, LMP1-H isn't a production based engine class. So why people seem to think that LMP1-H has more road relevance then F1 is beside me. Road relevance is about the philosophy of making the most fuel efficient racing cars. People think that the Hybrid part of F1 is bolt on part and Ferrari, Renault and Mercedes use the same part. Or that the battery pack all use the same specs. A lot of R&D has gone in to the project. When Mercedes starts a new hybrid project, that knowledge that they gained in F1 will help the roadcar division. It's not about swapping parts from the racing cars into the roadcar.

Shareholders also don't like money pissed away which fueled great manufacturer exodus 5 years ago.

The core values of Mercedes also dictate that they can't engage in business with those who commit bribery/fraud; Ecclestone. Most German firms I was told have this written into their corporate governance nowadays. But they're still there now aren't they?

Lauda also ruined Jaguar; ran Bobby Rahal out and got a $10 million payout from Ford to get lost.

He doesn't know anything about running a team.

LMP1-H does have more road relevance simply because of what the regulations are. There's a reason Toyota went there. F1 has never had road relevance from 1950 on. It's a myth.

[godlameroso]

You would be amazed what companies will spend on marketing though, look what big tobacco used to spend on auto sports.

Or just look at Red Bull. They bought not one but two Formula 1 teams to promote an energy drink.

And rally, and LeMans, and x-games, and sailing, and aviation, and technology, and break dancing, and Fluutag

[godlameroso]

Answer: Because shareholders like value for money. Mercedes only compete in DTM and F1. They compete in DTM mainly for the local market. VW Group,BMW and Daimler are fighting for costumers and saying to a costumer look our brand has beaten the compitation in a straight fight is the easiest way to convince future buyers. Because the price difference of a A4, 3-series or C-class is really small. It isn't a coincidence the three manufacturers use their most sold model in the series( M4 and RS5 based on bmw 3-series and Audi renamed A5, used to be A4).

Mercedes use F1 as a platform for many things its not only about road relevance (knowledge transfer), its about showcasing the core values of the brand, trying to connect with costumers that are in to racing old or new (they added AMG to promote the racing part of Mercedes). Its about giving the brand a worldwide presence and also of course about showcasing their race pedigree. If a rich guy has 100.000 dollars to spend and he is presented a RS5, BMW M5 or C63-AMG and he hasn't made up is mind. Seeing a add with Mercedes F1 world championship and a C63-AMG i''m sure he will buy a Mercedes instead of the other brands. Not everyone goes through the spreadsheet of specs, especially rich guys they just want a quick car. And its working for Mercedes, AMG is growing year by year.

Why Lauda and Wolff are in charge? HWA AMG AG is co-owned by Wolff and Toto has ran the DTM program form 2007 with succes (business and race management skills). Lauda knows what is needed to create a successful racing team because he has been racing for them, also Lauda is a good bussiness man knows how to maximize recources he did it with laudaAIR. Lauda was also in the management of Jaguer F1 team, so he also knows how NOT to run a F1 team.

And about road relevance, LMP1-H isn't a production based engine class. So why people seem to think that LMP1-H has more road relevance then F1 is beside me. Road relevance is about the philosophy of making the most fuel efficient racing cars. People think that the Hybrid part of F1 is bolt on part and Ferrari, Renault and Mercedes use the same part. Or that the battery pack all use the same specs. A lot of R&D has gone in to the project. When Mercedes starts a new hybrid project, that knowledge that they gained in F1 will help the roadcar division. It's not about swapping parts from the racing cars into the roadcar.

Shareholders also don't like money pissed away which fueled great manufacturer exodus 5 years ago.

The core values of Mercedes also dictate that they can't engage in business with those who commit bribery/fraud; Ecclestone. Most German firms I was told have this written into their corporate governance nowadays. But they're still there now aren't they?

Lauda also ruined Jaguar; ran Bobby Rahal out and got a $10 million payout from Ford to get lost.

He doesn't know anything about running a team.

LMP1-H does have more road relevance simply because of what the regulations are. There's a reason Toyota went there. F1 has never had road relevance from 1950 on. It's a myth.

Toyota went to LeMans because their multi-billion dollar facility in cologne was sitting there collecting dust aside from when Ferrari came to use their wind tunnel.

[Richard]

Locked pending tidy up

[kooleracer]

Answer: Because shareholders like value for money. Mercedes only compete in DTM and F1. They compete in DTM mainly for the local market. VW Group,BMW and Daimler are fighting for costumers and saying to a costumer look our brand has beaten the compitation in a straight fight is the easiest way to convince future buyers. Because the price difference of a A4, 3-series or C-class is really small. It isn't a coincidence the three manufacturers use their most sold model in the series( M4 and RS5 based on bmw 3-series and Audi renamed A5, used to be A4).

Mercedes use F1 as a platform for many things its not only about road relevance (knowledge transfer), its about showcasing the core values of the brand, trying to connect with costumers that are in to racing old or new (they added AMG to promote the racing part of Mercedes). Its about giving the brand a worldwide presence and also of course about showcasing their race pedigree. If a rich guy has 100.000 dollars to spend and he is presented a RS5, BMW M5 or C63-AMG and he hasn't made up is mind. Seeing a add with Mercedes F1 world championship and a C63-AMG i''m sure he will buy a Mercedes instead of the other brands. Not everyone goes through the spreadsheet of specs, especially rich guys they just want a quick car. And its working for Mercedes, AMG is growing year by year.

Why Lauda and Wolff are in charge? HWA AMG AG is co-owned by Wolff and Toto has ran the DTM program form 2007 with succes (business and race management skills). Lauda knows what is needed to create a successful racing team because he has been racing for them, also Lauda is a good bussiness man knows how to maximize recources he did it with laudaAIR. Lauda was also in the management of Jaguer F1 team, so he also knows how NOT to run a F1 team.

And about road relevance, LMP1-H isn't a production based engine class. So why people seem to think that LMP1-H has more road relevance then F1 is beside me. Road relevance is about the philosophy of making the most fuel efficient racing cars. People think that the Hybrid part of F1 is bolt on part and Ferrari, Renault and Mercedes use the same part. Or that the battery pack all use the same specs. A lot of R&D has gone in to the project. When Mercedes starts a new hybrid project, that knowledge that they gained in F1 will help the roadcar division. It's not about swapping parts from the racing cars into the roadcar.

Shareholders also don't like money pissed away which fueled great manufacturer exodus 5 years ago.

The core values of Mercedes also dictate that they can't engage in business with those who commit bribery/fraud; Ecclestone. Most German firms I was told have this written into their corporate governance nowadays. But they're still there now aren't they?

Lauda also ruined Jaguar; ran Bobby Rahal out and got a $10 million payout from Ford to get lost.

He doesn't know anything about running a team.

LMP1-H does have more road relevance simply because of what the regulations are. There's a reason Toyota went there. F1 has never had road relevance from 1950 on. It's a myth.

Shareholders also don't like money pissed away which fueled great manufacturer exodus 5 years ago.

When you spend a lot of money and you don't have success, of course you are going to quit. Manufacturers profit form the exposure when they become world champion, the run tons of ads and flaunt with the fact they have one the world champion. Keep your eye on the upcoming Mercedes ads, or ads form their sponsors.

You can't hold Mercedes accountable for the actions of Mr.E, Ecclestone was on trail not Mercedes. So that argument doesn't hold up. And Mr.E hasn't been formally jailed for bribing, because he won the case ( bought off, you say potato, I say potato). So they haven't broke their core values by still being in F1.

On the matter of Lauda, that why I also wrote "how NOT to run a F1 team" I'm sure he has learned form his previous experience with Jaguar.

LMP1-H does have more road relevance simply because of what the regulations are, which regulations makes LMP1-H more relevant according to you?

Darren Cox , Head of Global Marketing at Nissan. Said the following about their 2015 WEC challenge:“In terms of timing, the new LMP1 rules for factory entries is perfect for us,” he added. “The new focus on energy efficiency for 2014 and beyond means the engineering challenges have real relevance to the challenges our engineers face on our road car projects.” Its about the fuel efficiency challenge, F1 and WEC have the same goal. They are both relevant because they tackle the same issue. WEC was more relevant in 2013, but in 2014 F1 and WEC are both relevant.

But this topic is about the engine unfreeze, lets forget this discussion about marketing and F1.

[dans79]

Take a look at most people who drive Mercedes Benz or think of purchasing a Mercedes.

They don't care about auto racing.

I live in an area that mimics various others across the planet where the Tri Star is seen as nothing more than a form of currency to be used in an effort to boost one's social/class status. Prestige sells Mercedes more than anything.

You just proved my point, owning the car manufactured by the world champions is a form of Prestige.

For adage of "what wins on Sunday, sells on Monday" to have a chance of holding true, F1 would have to be racing cars that actually are road cars.

Again, you are giving way to much credit to the average car buyer.