Mercedes abyss - 2014 & Ciro's Comedian Backalley

[dans79]

a perfect example of how winning championships is used to sell cars is this Inifiniti Commercial.

http://www.ispot.tv/ad/7M4f/infiniti-in ... ian-vettel

[marcush.]

I´d think Daimler has the urge to prove a point in F1 (History in the making -buzzword by Hamilton..).This box will be ticked off very soon and there is not much added value winning 2,3 or 5 more as inevitably from the pinnacle there is only a way down inevitably.The longer you stay the more inevitable the decline is waiting .See Ferrari ,see RedBull .
You´d better quit while at the top.
Daimler has already vowed to start the second loop of cost savings for the coming year. The target is to save another few Billion € on overheads in the coming years -the programme is called fit for leadership...I cannot imagine how you get away erasing huge budgets for car development and maintain half billion budgets for Formula 1 this will end as soon as a cut down in workforce in Germany is rolled out.
Zetsche explicitly has mentioned where reductions are planned: "Fixkosten" so cost not directly generating profits....
I think the formula 1 business with 700 employees and expensive facilities fit this bill perfectly.
The original plan with Recource Restriction Agreement would at least have been soso cost neutral as sold to the board by Haug ..but that´s a long evaporated dream these days...the days of Daimler in Formula 1 are counted even if we are not
officially informed.

[marcush.]

a perfect example of how winning championships is used to sell cars is this Inifiniti Commercial.

http://www.ispot.tv/ad/7M4f/infiniti-in ... ian-vettel

Infinity ? are you sure this is a good example? As far as I´m informed these cars do not sell well at all Vettel winning or not .

[xpensive]

...
I'd love to know how the shareholders sit by and watch this type of money being pissed away with no benefit to be had.
...

Forget "markeing", that's just a xcuse to spend a long weekend with MrE's hospitality, including champagne and half naked ladies.

[MercedesAMGSpy]

Split from the engine unfreeze debate.

Just when we thought it was safe because Brawn had left Zetchse then let two Austrians run the team ....

_________________________________________________

There is no real world benefit to spending half a billion USD on a Formula 1 program.

I'd love to know how the shareholders sit by and watch this type of money being pissed away with no benefit to be had.

Sure they will dress it up as a marketing exercise, but this doesn't make me want to run out and buy a Mercedes since what they do in F1 has no real world relevance...not even a supposed "road relevant" V6 hybrid engine has any meaning. I never watched F1 for road relevance. I watched it because it was about outrageous engines, and outrageous cars.

I also do wonder why Zetchse is letting two Austrians run the team.

''These two Austrians'' are Mercedes shareholders and will do everything to make the F1 project a huge success. Mercedes have a big budget to spend, sponsoring the German football team, DTM etc. Why would they sponsor the German football team? Why would they invest in a F1 team? Well, they have the money to do so and every time the name Mercedes is mentioned, they will be satisfied.

[Manoah2u]

Mercedes won their first ever F1 constructor championship. "Historical" are words used both by themselves and the media.

Not marketable? They couldn't be more happy. Every F1 race you see 2 silver cars at the front, sometimes having an issue with eachother, but they are still way faster and ahead of everybody. Meanwhile they have a german face to please the audience and a wannabe-rapper (despite the choise of words not negatively intended, i am a Hamilton fan) that pleases other audience.

Mercedes' brand 'clientele' aren't poor 'lower class' citizens, they can have a renault if they wish - they can't pay a Merc whether Merc wins a title or Renault wins a title, so they have zero interest in this 'buyer category', because they aren't merc buyers.
They may buy a t-shirt or a model car but that's where it ends.

Mercedes winning the championship is all win for them: the rich old farts buy the mercedes so they can brag about driving a brand that won the F1 title. Usually they've been driving mercs for a while - but it's not just about somebody buying a brand, it's about somebody staying with the brand.
Dissapointing results of a brand in the long term leave the possibility that your buyers leave for the competition (BMW, Audi) if their brand is continiously successfull.

So yes, let's pump millions into the marketing machine because it will guarantee that our buyers keep being buyers, and we get the benefit of adding special F1 editions to the line-up.

Additionally, the Hamilton-wannabe-rapper image is positive aswell because this indeed, attracts 'real' rappers, because 'their homie (rosberg surely aint)', has won the title in a merc. Now they all want a AMG GT, a G-Class, or whatever.
And what does that result? yes, in brand promotion - remaining popular.

BMW left F1 years ago, a poster on the wall of BMW Formula 1 team doesn't have any value at the dealership anymore.
Audi hasn't been in F1, a poster on the wall of Le Mans is what they might use to 'prove their label'.
Mercedes has just won F1 title, historically for the first time - and with great 'overpower'. There will be posters at every dealership around the world.

how does this effect buyers? Well they've been to BMW. They've been to Audi. and They've been to Merc. BMW Audi and Merc all have great cars. But there's only one of those 3 that has shown utter dominance in a category; and that is Mercedes, because despite Audi shown recent dominance in Le Mans, they've become a bit 'bland' and F1 has much more flair and prestige as a motorsport symbol.

So Mercedes has invested a lot of money into F1, but they can get that back from their exposure of success in the following years to come. Don't be surprised if they are dominant in 2015, too. For now, they have both cars at the front, the title, and arguably built the BEST hybrid engine/combination in a 'new' field (new F1). That is the perfect exposure and dream marketing.

[dans79]

a perfect example of how winning championships is used to sell cars is this Inifiniti Commercial.

http://www.ispot.tv/ad/7M4f/infiniti-in ... ian-vettel

Infinity ? are you sure this is a good example? As far as I´m informed these cars do not sell well at all Vettel winning or not .

how effective the add campaign is is definitely in question. My point was look what they are doing. They are simply implying that since Vettel is a four time world champion that effects the quality of their cars.

[rscsr]

All in all, F1 cost Mercedes "just" 63 000 000€ or so in 2013. I have no idea how much it will be this season, but I doubt that it will be higher at all. Doesn't sound too bad for a constructors and drivers title in F1.

[SectorOne]

a perfect example of how winning championships is used to sell cars is this Inifiniti Commercial.

http://www.ispot.tv/ad/7M4f/infiniti-in ... ian-vettel

Infinity ? are you sure this is a good example? As far as I´m informed these cars do not sell well at all Vettel winning or not .

You should be looking at their sales pre-RBR sponsorship and post sponsorship.
As well as general exposure.

A company that nobody knows exists will never sell as good as a company everyone knows exist.

[GitanesBlondes]

When you spend a lot of money and you don't have success, of course you are going to quit. Manufacturers profit form the exposure when they become world champion, the run tons of ads and flaunt with the fact they have one the world champion. Keep your eye on the upcoming Mercedes ads, or ads form their sponsors.

They quit because they couldn't justify the expenditures no matter what happened. No board or shareholders were going to stand for hundreds of millions of dollars going down the drain with little conceivable benefit.

You can't hold Mercedes accountable for the actions of Mr.E, Ecclestone was on trail not Mercedes. So that argument doesn't hold up. And Mr.E hasn't been formally jailed for bribing, because he won the case ( bought off, you say potato, I say potato). So they haven't broke their core values by still being in F1.

Incorrect.

Here is a direct link to their Integrity Code...

http://www.daimler.com/Projects/c2c/cha ... y_Code.pdf

Direct quote from that is:(relevant section bolded for you)

As a company that does business worldwide, we at Daimler have a global responsibility. As a result, we have committed ourselves to the principles of the United Nations Global Compact.

We place special emphasis on the following principles:

– Protection of human rights

– Protection of fundamental rights at work, in particular the freedom of association and the right to collective bargaining, the elimination of discrimination before and during employment and the rejection of forced labour and child labour

– Sustained environmental protection

– Fight against corruption.

We are working to ensure that our company, as well as our business partners and customers, follow these principles. Furthermore, we comply with international and local laws and provisions. Together, we ensure that everyone in the Daimler Group obeys the laws and regulations that apply to our work.

So erm, yeah you want to try that again?

LMP1-H does have more road relevance simply because of what the regulations are, which regulations makes LMP1-H more relevant according to you?

Closed wheel, closed cockpit prototypes make it more relevant. I don't know anyone who drives around an open cabin --convertibles not withstanding-- open wheel road cars. They also allowed for more approaches to be used with regards to engine design, something F1 did not do because they were too busy pretending to be concerned about reduced costs, and they forced a near spec engine design on everyone save for a loophole regarding split turbos.

[marcush.]

All in all, F1 cost Mercedes "just" 63 000 000€ or so in 2013. I have no idea how much it will be this season, but I doubt that it will be higher at all. Doesn't sound too bad for a constructors and drivers title in F1.

or so... with 700 employees of top catgory you will not even pay their wages with that sort of moneys...Sure they have Sponsorship ..but you believe blackberry (who has bought a blackberry recently???) Petronas is reported to pay 30mill € per year as title sponsors...with reported 500mill€spent this year the canyon we are trying to bridge is a bit deeper than your 63mill € ....if I´m not mistaken ...even RedBulls Mateschitz let Vettel go without even hesitating ..a 4 times champion
is not worth much if you don´t win...

and then the Infinity sales figures for the last seasons with Vettel Winning at will:

http://left-lane.com/european-car-sales-data/infiniti/

thats hardly a justification for spending even 1€ for being associated with all those titles and domination...Formula 1 sponsorship does not sell ANYTHING.period.
The motivation to sponsoring is :Having the budget available anyways ,it´s not your own hard earned money or having so much you need to get rid of it (or washing dirty moneys) or you have a faible for this ,want to be recognized as being important etc.But selling your product ? Maybe fags ,ok but many of the product are not even available like petronas or
Mind you -Monacos Count Rainier has lured the Formula 1 race into the place to associate formula 1s importance with the little kingdom.....

[GitanesBlondes]

You just proved my point, owning the car manufactured by the world champions is a form of Prestige.

It doesn't prove anything because Mercedes had prestige long before their F1 involvement.

Again, you are giving way to much credit to the average car buyer.

You do realize you just argued against yourself there...right?

The average car buyer doesn't give a crap about what Mercedes does, or does not achieve in F1. So any prestige associated with the Tri Star isn't coming from F1. The only people who would go out an buy a Mercedes based on what they've accomplished in F1 are likely to be the Mercedes groupies who are undying Mercedes fans as is...of course that assumes they can afford to buy a Mercedes. Here's the other thing to, F1 ratings and attendance have been in a huge slide over the past couple of years, so whatever perceived marketing value is being attained is also on the decline since less eyes watching means less overall exposure.

Renault sales were trending upward over the course of the previous decade, and as Renault found out, winning back to back drivers titles had negligible impact on their sales. They ran a number of cute ads at the time but again, the average car consumer is more influenced by their experiences when purchasing a car, and the subsequent experiences at the dealership. That will have a larger impact on why they buy a particular manufacturer than racing exploits.

Why Car Buyers Buy

http://businessjournal.gallup.com/conte ... s-buy.aspx

For example, customers who stated that their auto dealer sales and service reps were "extremely helpful" were, on average, 11 times more likely to have passion for their cars. And in another study, we found that owners of Toyotas and Hondas, both of which are highly rated for their vehicle quality, were 10 to 15 times more disposed to repurchase those vehicle brands if they felt that their dealers provided outstanding customer service. Brand passion depends on more than just functional attributes

Customers aren't just "touched" by the quality and price of the vehicle or by the informational content of its advertising. Their perceptions are formed -- and their emotions are engaged -- by their experiences while their car is in the service bay, the treatment they receive during the financing process, the appreciative stares of their neighbors, and the time they spend on hold waiting to talk to a customer service representative. Those are the moments that enhance or endanger brand relationships.

[marcush.]

ah -the integrity code -I have a printed issue of that code in hand and one of the main points is :
Daimler has a zero tolerance policy towards imoral and corrupt practices by employees and business partners....that´s where any association with Bernie gets muddy indeed.
Daimler runs a business practises office in Germany and USA and additionally a compliance consultation desk in Germany .There are 4 levels of compliance checks within Daimler and naturally all Board Members have to abide to the highest standards of level 4 ...

[dans79]

whatever, I should have just listened to the modes when they warned me about you!

.

I would prefer not to read something like this .If anything you´would have earned yourself a ban for this .Others have been for less .

Well, I have a limit to my patience, and will only tolerate so much from someone who is arguing just for the sake of it.

[FoxHound]

This thread...smells of odiousness.

1.Can we please have some verification of the source of the 500 million spend? Was this actual out of Merc pocket spend, or total spend.

2.Then can someone please tell me how much it would cost to launch a sports car brand globally, with the added kudos of beating McLaren and Ferrari? Yup, Merc actually did that with AMG.

3.Then can someone please show me Ferrari's spend, as they are the only team with the same costs for designing and building their own engines and chassis/aero. In fact, show me Red Bull's team design, build and running cost as well as Renault's engine design,build and running costs and compare to Mercedes. Fair is fair now.

If we gonna be all obtuse about this topic, and make out as if it is some sort of scandal, well how are these figures.
In Q1 of 2009, prior to Mercedes official involvement as a manufacturer team in F1, they lost 1.5 BILLION dollars as a company. All the while paying a future competitor in McLaren 80 million plus free engines.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/200 ... es-warning

Fast forward 5 years of Mercedes F1 involvement as a manufacturer team, and these are the current figures.
The Q2 of 2014 shows a 4.6 BILLION dollar EBIT profit. All the while spanking their old partners at Woking who are *paying for this years engines.
http://www.daimler.com/dccom/0-5-7153-1 ... 0-0-0.html


Cash aint no issue dawg.