2015 Noses merged thread

[zioture]

I have read the Regulation, I think that noses will be similar to that of Ferrari and Mercedes first version, the second version mercedes is too short. Here I have drawn a hypothetical nose without the Lotus twin tip that will be 'illegal in 2015' cause he double section

.
here is a video demonstration that shows the only difference. It is only a graphic demonstration and does not take into account the precise measurements of the Regulation.

[dans79]

As far as I've heard, Lotus is the only team that doesn't have a symmetrical nose. The nose Merc used for the first 3 races, should be pretty close to legal next year.

[Harsha]

Pardon me for my Noob Questions
If the new noses for 2015 are more of a style of Merc or Ferrari then would it effect entire design philosophy of other cars

[scarbs]

The design will change for all teams, true enough the ferrari nose will probably be the least changed. There's stringent new crash test criteria. I suspect the Merc U nose won't be so beneficial, with the more complex tip rules.
Noses will be longer most likely reaching well forward of the front wing. Also the long finger used by most teams will be shortened to just a 10cm stubby finger (should we call it a thumb?)

[prince]

Pardon me for my Noob Questions
If the new noses for 2015 are more of a style of Merc or Ferrari then would it effect entire design philosophy of other cars

First thing first. As part of evolution, a lot of visible changes may occur on almost all cars, because as it is today the whole package might not be completely optimized. A lot of things that people learn, would require basic design change to accommodate and it can only be done on a new iteration.

There is a greater possibility that Renault and Ferrari would have done a great deal of overhauling of their PU (48% overall hardware change allowed for next year), which MAY force a lot of CoG and weight distribution changes (again within available framework). With change in these parameters, there would be change to suspension elements. Many teams would want to look at Merc's front suspension design and want to adopt it, which also has a lot of aerodynamic benefits (refer to recent article from Giorgio Piola). There is also the thing about Gearbox placement design on Merc, that allows seamless change in the suspension pick up points on the car, which is such an advantage on varying circuit demands.

The nose design change for a lot of teams would definitely change the profile of the car's aerodynamic behavior. It would be unsettling and no one would go for only changing the front of the car without addressing anything overall.

If you see an overall change on a car, remember its not only because of nose design change but would include a lot of the said (and unsaid) parameters.

[Harsha]

Pardon me for my Noob Questions
If the new noses for 2015 are more of a style of Merc or Ferrari then would it effect entire design philosophy of other cars

First thing first. As part of evolution, a lot of visible changes may occur on almost all cars, because as it is today the whole package might not be completely optimized. A lot of things that people learn, would require basic design change to accommodate and it can only be done on a new iteration.

There is a greater possibility that Renault and Ferrari would have done a great deal of overhauling of their PU (48% overall hardware change allowed for next year), which MAY force a lot of CoG and weight distribution changes (again within available framework). With change in these parameters, there would be change to suspension elements. Many teams would want to look at Merc's front suspension design and want to adopt it, which also has a lot of aerodynamic benefits (refer to recent article from Giorgio Piola). There is also the thing about Gearbox placement design on Merc, that allows seamless change in the suspension pick up points on the car, which is such an advantage on varying circuit demands.

The nose design change for a lot of teams would definitely change the profile of the car's aerodynamic behavior. It would be unsettling and no one would go for only changing the front of the car without addressing anything overall.

If you see an overall change on a car, remember its not only because of nose design change but would include a lot of the said (and unsaid) parameters.

Thanks for the detailed Explanation

[Harsha]

The design will change for all teams, true enough the ferrari nose will probably be the least changed. There's stringent new crash test criteria. I suspect the Merc U nose won't be so beneficial, with the more complex tip rules.
Noses will be longer most likely reaching well forward of the front wing. Also the long finger used by most teams will be shortened to just a 10cm stubby finger (should we call it a thumb?)

Pardon me again
So the FW will look like one element completely than two like now(FW + the Nose element where Teams tried to reach the specified point like SFI - Caterham team noses even RBR with the Keel )
As you stated with this New nose the car design will be altered will that makes the cars to have even less Downforce and more unstable than this year at front of the car ??

[Blackout]

I thought the 2015 nose 'tip' will be less wide in 2015 (140mm maximum). About half as wide as the Ferrari or Mercedes nose...

[WaikeCU]

I thought the 2015 nose 'tip' will be less wide in 2015 (140mm maximum). About half as wide as the Ferrari or Mercedes nose...

Nice! Expect to see something similar to these again...

[Blackout]

The design will change for all teams, true enough the ferrari nose will probably be the least changed. There's stringent new crash test criteria. I suspect the Merc U nose won't be so beneficial, with the more complex tip rules.
Noses will be longer most likely reaching well forward of the front wing. Also the long finger used by most teams will be shortened to just a 10cm stubby finger (should we call it a thumb?)

Exactly. I fear the teams can still design a finger nose just in front of the new 330 max width section

[Blanchimont]

I thought the 2015 nose 'tip' will be less wide in 2015 (140mm maximum). About half as wide as the Ferrari or Mercedes nose...

That's what some clueless dude seems to think about the noses: http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... =1&t=20109

[Blackout]

Great work as allways.
Maybe the FIA wanted a nose like this (a bit lower than the RB10, 30mm lower approx)


Maybe we should merge these threads : P

[Blanchimont]

Back at the beginning of this year,
"FIA has asked teams to supply its technical department with details of the design and construction of the noses, specifically the “Cross sectional areas of the nose, taken vertically and normal the car centre line, at points 50mm, 150mm and 300mm back from the tip of the nose itself. The same cross-sections as above showing the construction of the parts in the relevant sections." ( http://www.racecar-engineering.com/news ... se-safety/ )

The first two cross sections mentioned made it into the 2015 regs, maybe we'll see the addition of more cross sections for 2016 if the FIA/fans are not satisfied with look?

The nose of the 2014 Red Bull for me is the most likely version. A bit lower as you correctly pointed out, Blackout.
A comparison of the endplate(top dimension 275mm above the ref. plane) and the 2015 nose tip(top dimension 220mm above the ref. plane) gives an idea how low the tip has to be located.


Article 16.2 also gives a hint where things will change, today's long finger noses would probably not pass part d.

"The resistance of the test structure must be such that during the impact either :
a) The peak deceleration over the first 100mm of deformation does not exceed 10g.
b) The peak permissible deceleration increases linearly from 10g at 100mm to 20g at 150mm of deformation.
c) The peak deceleration over the first 60kJ energy absorption does not exceed 20g.
d) The average deceleration over the first 150mm of deformation exceeds 2.5g.
e) The average deceleration of the trolley does not exceed 40g.
f) The peak deceleration in the chest of the dummy does not exceed 60g for more than a cumulative 3ms, this being the resultant of data from three axes."

[McMrocks]

I just tried to build a 2015 nose in a 3D programme. So i read the tech rules for 2015 and i've got some questions:

No part of this structure may lie more than 525mm above the reference plane and its forward-most point must not be less than 850mm forward of the front wheel centre line.
It must have:

a)A single external vertical cross-section, perpendicular to the car centre line, of more than 9000mm² at a point 50mm behind its forward-mostpoint.No part of this cross-section may lie less than 135mm above the reference plane and its overall width must not exceed 140mm.

b)A single external vertical cross-section, perpendicular to the car centre line, of more than 20000mm² at a point 150mm behind its forward-most point. The overall width of this cross-section must not exceed 330mm.

When measuring these sections, only parts between the highest point of the section and 100mm vertically below this point, may be considered.

I quoted the full paragraph to put it into context. But my question concernes the bolted part. Does that sentence say that the maximum height of the impact absorbing structure is 10cm (100mm)? Or at least that the your 9000mm² and 20000mm² have to be within 10cm in height?

Next thing:

Furthermore, all lines drawn normally and externally to a vertical cross-section taken 150mm ahead of the front wheel centre line and perpendicular to the car centre line, must not cross a vertical longitudinal plane lying on the car centre line.

If i get this paragraph right, it says: 150mm (15cm) ahead of the front wheel centre line the crash structure may not be concave. Right?
In the following example (a sloppily drawn picture) you can see a concave cross section(black) and a line drawn normally to a Point P1 (green). This line crosses the vertical longitudinal plane lying on the car (red). => this shape would be illegal:
http://www.directupload.net/file/d/3784 ... gr_jpg.htm

[mrluke]

I read the first point as saying your 9,000 and 20,000mm2 areas can only be 100mm deep, i.e. a minimum width of 200mm at a point 150mm behind the tip.

I would agree with your interpretation of the 2nd point.

Interesting that only the 9,000mm2 cross section has a max width of 140, as soon as you are 51mm behind the tip it can be 330 wide? so mercedes could put a red bull horizontal tip at the end of their nose and it would pretty much be there?