I have a dream...

[Blanchimont]

that one day there'll be a road racing series that is faster than current F1 and it could be named F0, F Free or simply F Technical.

This is how the dream goes:
It was a depressing time, fans of F1 complained about F1. They didn't like the look of the cars, the sound was not what they were used to, the impression of the speed wasn't there anymore and money seemed to be the only thing to follow.

In a dark corner of the internet, some people just couldn't accept that it should stay like this forever. In a desperate attempt this small group created a set of technical and sporting rules. It didn't take them very long to discuss, write down and publish these simple but revolutionary rules. A website was created where everyone could read and learn about the rules and which racetracks the series should race on. It soon gathered interest in other online communities and the media.

Small racing teams got interested and wanted to know when this promising series will finally start off. There were more than enough teams to make a full grid because there was a lot of technical freedom in the rules but it didn't cost that much money. Race tracks didn't have to pay money to be allowed to host a race, they even could decide who can advertise at the track. The people loved this series and every race was sold out as the ticket prices were low.

The races took place only in Europe at the beginning to keep the costs down. The races were streamed online to increase the audience in addition to Free TV coverage. Most of the money was distributed evenly among the teams, the successful teams who won most of the races were awarded additional incomes through their ability to attract sponsors.

After five years where F1 and this new series existed in parallel, F1 died.

[bhall II]

I've had dreams like that, too, except they usually involve a hot actress and $240 worth of pudding.

Totally realistic.

(I wish.)

[MadMatt]

It is an idea that I think every fellow motorsport fan has in the back of his mind, but there is always something that makes this kind of project flood: money.

In your speach, it is the "there were more than enough teams to make a full grid because there was a lot of technical freedom in the rules but it didn't cost that much money" that is the problem. Technical freedom means a lot of money involved in R&D, therefore killing the small teams that would build this series as you say.

I know it sucks but that's how it is I think. We cannot go back to 1965 or something similar, not with what we know now.

These days I think some kind of gentlement agreement or "fair racing" has to be the main idea of such series. Let's say a team of designers and engineers (number is free) that design a whole car, in let's say 5000 man hours (this is fixed and has to be respected by all the teams on behalf of racing spirit). Then it is to a team of builders to build the cars and test them in let's say 5000 man hours again, which would equal to a car being designed a built in 10000 hours (some might even use this to name the competition).

But how do you fund these in the first place? You first have to bet quite a lot of money before maybe getting any money back.

Yet this would be some kind of Formula Student for adults" if you allow me to say that. But as you see, it is based on money and trust, which don't go well together

[Paul]

Even if it is possible to police it, that still would mean money will be spend on attracting the workforce that is able to deliver more in the same number of hours. Same problem as with any caps. If there is money to be spent, money will be spent.

I do like the idea of even distribution of prize money, as long as measures are taken to make sure teams don't just show up for the cheques without any intention to ever bу truly competitive.

If a sponsor shows up and wants to invest heavily in the team to win, well, good for them. Money doesn't equal success anyway. So it still leaves more efficient teams a chance even if there is no cost cap and their sponsors aren't quite as generous.

[Just_a_fan]

It's a nice idea. Be good to mix race lengths too - have some shorter real sprint races, say 30 mins, and some longer semi-endurance races, say 3 hours, with some "normal" races of 90 minutes. Make the teams run the same basic car for all so that they can decide what balance of performance they go for. This would give a more mixed up set of results, I think. Could even have differing races each weekend - a 30min and a 90min race one weekend, a 3hour race the next.

The only issue with your idea is that, at least until F1 dies, we would lose some of the great tracks - Spa, Suzuka etc. because Bernie has them under contract. We would have access to others though - F1-style cars running in "endurance trim" at Le Mans for example. That would be fun and different.

[flyboy2160]

There are so many 2+2=5 fools involved at every level (Moneesha being a perfect example), that I think F1 will have to completely collapse due to additional major foolishness (say the the current rules with a cost cap so that championships end up being decided in court months or years after the races as the teams and "whistleblowers" accuse each of cost cheating) before sanity like the proposed scheme will return.

[Blanchimont]

Max Mosley: "From a sporting point of view, the sport should split the money equally and then let the teams get as much sponsorship as they can." ( http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/29789233 )

If Max agrees, does this mean this dream is already dead before it started living?

[RZS10]

I've had dreams like that, too, except they usually involve a hot actress and $240 worth of pudding.

Totally realistic.

(I wish.)

[Richard]

Max is a lawyer so he weighs up the respective arguments. That quote only refers to the sporting perspective, what he doesn't mention is the "FOM cash generating perspective" which trumps any trifling sporting matters.

[flyboy2160]

Max Mosley: "From a sporting point of view, the sport should split the money equally and then let the teams get as much sponsorship as they can."....

And I'll add the very PC incorrect notion that the sponsorship be allowed from anybody: booze, ciggies, dope, bail bonds, houses of ill-repute, etc. Money problem? We don't have no stinking money problem. Let's build that 20,000 rpm sucker just 'cause we can.

You guys remember this famous scene from The Bad News Bears, right? (While the other teams were sponsored by MacDonalds or Pizza Hut or Dairy Queen)

[wesley123]

In a dark corner of the internet, some people just couldn't accept that it should stay like this forever. In a desperate attempt this small group created a set of technical and sporting rules. It didn't take them very long to discuss, write down and publish these simple but revolutionary rules.

Never came across an internet community where people agreed over such big a thing.

Small racing teams got interested and wanted to know when this promising series will finally start off. There were more than enough teams to make a full grid because there was a lot of technical freedom in the rules but it didn't cost that much money.

Neither does F1 really cost much, for that matter. But why wouldn't you spend the money you have? And that's the whole point here. Teams will spend the money they have, and why shouldn't they?

The races took place only in Europe at the beginning to keep the costs down.

why would that keep the costs down? The only reason i can think of would be transport. It surely can't be that expensive?

The races were streamed online to increase the audience in addition to Free TV coverage. Most of the money was distributed evenly among the teams,

What money? There doesn't seem to be any income for the authority responsible for organizing the series, according to the rest of your post.

[MOWOG]

Well, there is a lot of material to get excited about in that proposal, but realistic? Sadly, probably not.

I used to attend the USGP at Watkins Glen every October and it was a glorious time and place to be a fan of motor racing. You could smell the unburned hydrocarbons in the air and hear the ripping canvas sounds of the engines reverberating back from the surrounding hills. There were few if any grandstands and people were free to move around the entire perimeter of the track.

If I could rub a magic lamp and go back to those days, I would do so in a heartbeat. But sadly, it will never be that way again. I do think a spec series based upon Formula One cars of the 60's and run solely at historic racing venues would be hugely popular. Except the cars of that era were not nearly as safe as today's cars.They were essentially rolling aluminum gas tanks with a racing V-8 bolted to them. The world today would never accept the risks such cars came with.

The only way to keep some teams from spending cubic dollars on their race cars is to use spec racers. That's an idea that is anathema to many and I understand why. The best we could hope for is that all the proceeds from the racing side of the business get shared equally among all the competitors. So the only financial benefit of winning would be the ability to attract more and higher paying sponsors.

That and a rules package that specified narrower tires, a 50% reduction in aero and a return to cast iron brake rotors - all designed to reduce mechanical and aero grip and make it possible for a driver to outbrake another into a turn. Bring back refueling and let the teams select the tire compound they wish to run. Both would re-introduce race strategy. Some cars would run the whole race on one set of tires with no refueling will other would do 4 pit stops for tires and fuel. He who gets his sums right wins! =D>

With regard to refueling, several series do this safely by specifying a minimum pit stop time and/or requiring refueling be done before tires can be changed or any other work done on the car. The issue with refueling is the environment where doing it faster than anyone else is the only consideration. Take that element away and refueling could be done safely.

I for one think Formula One as we know it is on the brink of a total collapse. What will replace it, I have no idea. But what we need is more wheel to wheel racing with constant passing and repassing. That's what gets people excited and that excitement is what advertisers crave. Make it like this and sponsors will be beating down the doors to get involved with the sport.

[Nickel]

Re: Villeneuve vs Arnoux

I feel like someone could compile the best laps from Bahrain this year and end up with something pretty darn good too...

Pretty epic stuff.

Back OT, this sounds pretty sweet. I especially liked the idea of varying race lengths, but not of a weekend with only a 30min sprint race. I would like more from an event, say 3 * 30 minutes? 1 x qualifying order, 1 x reverse order, 1 x shuffled grid?

[rohit1594]

The moment another series becomes faster than Formula 1 (or even comparable with lap times of F1 cars), the FIA will (be forced to) change the regulations to bring F1 back on top...

[Blanchimont]

Thanks for the comments. The general sentiment seems to be in favor of the basic idea to create such a new series, but most people at the same time question the financial base to start it successfully.

But what if the main participating parties(teams and tracks, maybe tyre and fuel suppliers) would benefit the most from a success of the series in the future and receive ~95% of the profits eventually made. It could be organised as a non profit organisation, as FIFA or the IOC, but without all the corruption involved.

Of course, in the beginning, there won't be much money to give to the teams and tracks as no big TV deal will be available. This means that the interested teams and tracks have to finance the first few seasons that have to be very cheap. This could be a time for experiments with different race formats and fan dialogue to find the best solution for the series. But with the possible long term success in mind it could be worth it. Think of it as an investment in the future, maybe a rich racing fan(Jay Leno or the like) provides some risk capital? Maybe crowd funding can provide the first money for the preparations...


How could you ensure that the costs stay low? Do not allow road car manufacturers to enter the series with a team, only as a engine supplier it should be possible. If they want to deliver an engine for a team, they shouldn't be allowed to charge more than a certain amount per year. They receive the possibility to advertise with their eventual success. The governing body should also ensure that companies like Red Bull do not enter the series and start an arms race with budgets. Focus on small teams that live for racing, similar to the garagistes.

Wesley, you said that it'll hard to agree on a set of rules through online discussion. I agree with that, but if the group is limited to say all the moderators in this beloved forum and all users with a reputation of at least say 40, the chances are better i feel.


Still dreaming...

On the other hand, what could we lose if we just start and create the rules and then contact tracks and teams after the definition? Would Adrian be interested in joining us?