Mercedes AMG F1 W05

[danwilkie90]

During the Sky F1 coverage of the Brazilian Grand Prix, Martin Brundle said that it's understood that Mercedes have found at least 60hp more in their 2015 power units so far. O_O

[Mission Control]

That's easy, they've just turned up the boost! 5bar up them next year, back to where they where 30ish years ago

Is the turbo a "part" open to being changed over the winter? I know a little about turbo's and compressor maps etc and you have to size the blower ( hot & cold ) to the volume/pressure to make it efficient and avoid all the many side effects you can suffer. I appreciate I'm simplying the fact it's a whole system ( IC, pipe size, exh size, plenum design etc ) but if the other manufacturers can't swap in bigger compressors, at a min, or whole units, such as trying to copy the split design, then I can see why they all have a semi.

If they can, that's a lot of waffle for nothing.

[langwadt]

That's easy, they've just turned up the boost! 5bar up them next year, back to where they where 30ish years ago

Is the turbo a "part" open to being changed over the winter? I know a little about turbo's and compressor maps etc and you have to size the blower ( hot & cold ) to the volume/pressure to make it efficient and avoid all the many side effects you can suffer. I appreciate I'm simplying the fact it's a whole system ( IC, pipe size, exh size, plenum design etc ) but if the other manufacturers can't swap in bigger compressors, at a min, or whole units, such as trying to copy the split design, then I can see why they all have a semi.

If they can, that's a lot of waffle for nothing.

It is not the 80's, turning up the boost doesn't help. The limit is the fuel flow limit, not how much air you can stuff in
the engine

The only way to make more power is to use the fuel more efficiently and/or extract more energy from the exhaust which you can then use to drive the MGU-K

[mantikos]

That's easy, they've just turned up the boost! 5bar up them next year, back to where they where 30ish years ago

Is the turbo a "part" open to being changed over the winter? I know a little about turbo's and compressor maps etc and you have to size the blower ( hot & cold ) to the volume/pressure to make it efficient and avoid all the many side effects you can suffer. I appreciate I'm simplying the fact it's a whole system ( IC, pipe size, exh size, plenum design etc ) but if the other manufacturers can't swap in bigger compressors, at a min, or whole units, such as trying to copy the split design, then I can see why they all have a semi.

If they can, that's a lot of waffle for nothing.

I've read its based on the increased injector pressure - they are taking to the max allowed matching Ferrari's injector pressure

[mantikos]

That's easy, they've just turned up the boost! 5bar up them next year, back to where they where 30ish years ago

Is the turbo a "part" open to being changed over the winter? I know a little about turbo's and compressor maps etc and you have to size the blower ( hot & cold ) to the volume/pressure to make it efficient and avoid all the many side effects you can suffer. I appreciate I'm simplying the fact it's a whole system ( IC, pipe size, exh size, plenum design etc ) but if the other manufacturers can't swap in bigger compressors, at a min, or whole units, such as trying to copy the split design, then I can see why they all have a semi.

If they can, that's a lot of waffle for nothing.

It is not the 80's, turning up the boost doesn't help. The limit is the fuel flow limit, not how much air you can stuff in
the engine

The only way to make more power is to use the fuel more efficiently and/or extract more energy from the exhaust which you can then use to drive the MGU-K

The increased injector pressure is supposed to allow them to use fuel more efficiently - this could be related

http://forums.autosport.com/topic/19515 ... ?p=6932499

[PlatinumZealot]

Fuel injection pattern still does not explain the rumored fifty more horsepower... fuel injection management won't give you that much of a difference considering the 2014 engine would have been heavily tuned. Smells like some major hardware changes to me. ERS systems, combustion chamber, exhaust manifold, turbo. Slight changes to the cooling channels possibly... does anyone now if the rules allow the block internals to be altered?

[tok-tokkie]

Going back to Scarbs' Racers Edge on the gearbox. He states that the clutch is attached at the back of the engine. His diagram shows the 8 gear pairs with the selectors. There are 2 selector shafts. He says that the layout is the same as motorcycle gearboxes. The big thing about the twin selector shaft motorcycle gearboxes is that there are two clutches in those gearboxes. They alternate so 1 is engaged while the other is disengaged. You pre-select the next ratio you want (next gear up or down) and when you ask for the change the 2 clutches swop over giving the lightning quick change. These gearboxes are called Twin Clutch boxes.
So I wonder if Scarbs is quite correct in what he was showing.

[Ferraripilot]

To the poster who stated injection pressure does not result on more power.

A higher pressure direct injection system allows the same amount of fuel to be sprayed at a finer and more controlled mist resulting in more molecules being exposed to the flame front which results in quicker ignition of all molecules which yields more torque. Higher injection pressure is indeed directly related to torque and efficiency because of the above. If the Mercedes engine were operating at a 200-300bar system which is what was conjectured they ran, then going to 500bar or thereabouts would indeed increase efficiency.

[mantikos]

To the poster who stated injection pressure does not result on more power.

A higher pressure direct injection system allows the same amount of fuel to be sprayed at a finer and more controlled mist resulting in more molecules being exposed to the flame front which results in quicker ignition of all molecules which yields more torque. Higher injection pressure is indeed directly related to torque and efficiency because of the above. If the Mercedes engine were operating at a 200-300bar system which is what was conjectured they ran, then going to 500bar or thereabouts would indeed increase efficiency.

Exactly - and they are going from a 200-300 bar to 500 bar max allowed per the rules.

[Pierce89]

Going back to Scarbs' Racers Edge on the gearbox. He states that the clutch is attached at the back of the engine. His diagram shows the 8 gear pairs with the selectors. There are 2 selector shafts. He says that the layout is the same as motorcycle gearboxes. The big thing about the twin selector shaft motorcycle gearboxes is that there are two clutches in those gearboxes. They alternate so 1 is engaged while the other is disengaged. You pre-select the next ratio you want (next gear up or down) and when you ask for the change the 2 clutches swop over giving the lightning quick change. These gearboxes are called Twin Clutch boxes.
So I wonder if Scarbs is quite correct in what he was showing.

You're confused. Twin clutch gearboxes do work like you mentioned, but motorcycles don't use twin clutch boxes. They use traditional sequential boxes.

[PhillipM]

Exactly - and they are going from a 200-300 bar to 500 bar max allowed per the rules.

Even the, I'd be very surprised if the difference was more than 4-5bhp

[mantikos]

Exactly - and they are going from a 200-300 bar to 500 bar max allowed per the rules.

Even the, I'd be very surprised if the difference was more than 4-5bhp

Well you should be surprised then - I am not attributing a number to the increase, all I am saying is, they took a whole year to develop this and the efficiency increase is supposed to be significant.

[Glyn]

Exactly - and they are going from a 200-300 bar to 500 bar max allowed per the rules.

Even the, I'd be very surprised if the difference was more than 4-5bhp

Well you should be surprised then - I am not attributing a number to the increase, all I am saying is, they took a whole year to develop this and the efficiency increase is supposed to be significant.

So with this increased 50 bhp. And better efficiency.

What are the advantages of Mercedes going for more power. Vs running less fuel to have a lighter car.

Or am I talking gobbledygook.

[Facts Only]

So with this increased 50 bhp. And better efficiency.

What are the advantages of Mercedes going for more power. Vs running less fuel to have a lighter car.

Or am I talking gobbledygook.

If you can create more power from the same amount of fuel, you can create the same amount of power from less fuel so it gives them the choice. Efficiency and Power are inseperable.

[tok-tokkie]

Going back to Scarbs' Racers Edge on the gearbox. He states that the clutch is attached at the back of the engine. His diagram shows the 8 gear pairs with the selectors. There are 2 selector shafts. He says that the layout is the same as motorcycle gearboxes. The big thing about the twin selector shaft motorcycle gearboxes is that there are two clutches in those gearboxes. They alternate so 1 is engaged while the other is disengaged. You pre-select the next ratio you want (next gear up or down) and when you ask for the change the 2 clutches swop over giving the lightning quick change. These gearboxes are called Twin Clutch boxes.
So I wonder if Scarbs is quite correct in what he was showing.

You're confused. Twin clutch gearboxes do work like you mentioned, but motorcycles don't use twin clutch boxes. They use traditional sequential boxes.

Sure ordinary motorcycle boxes use a single clutch. But MotoGP bikes and some road bikes have dual clutch boxes. For the lightening quick changes in MotoGP and F1 they must be using dual clutch gearboxes.




Blue clutch for blue gear set. Red clutch for red gear set. Honda VFR. Can set it to button activated change or automatic. Friend of mine knows the VFR well.