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Team: Toto Wolff (Executive Director - Business), Paddy Lowe (Executive Director - Technical), Andy Cowell (Executive Director of Mercedes AMG Powertrains), Niki Lauda (Chairman), Bob Bell (TD), Aldo Costa (ED), Geoffrey Willis (Technology Director), Ron Meadows (SD), Andrew Shovlin (CRE), Simon Cole (CTE), Matthew Dane (CM)
Drivers: Nico Rosberg (6), Lewis Hamilton (44)
Team name: Mercedes AMG F1 Petronas
Well, it would be significant from the injection event point of view, it wouldn't be that significant overall though, if you're saying it is the whole 50bhp just from that it would have to be a direct 1:1 correlation with combustion efficiency (fuel delivery and spray improvement would be the root of the pressure difference) - no chance.mantikos wrote: Well you should be surprised then - I am not attributing a number to the increase, all I am saying is, they took a whole year to develop this and the efficiency increase is supposed to be significant.
Never even implied that let alone say thatPhillipM wrote:Well, it would be significant from the injection event point of view, it wouldn't be that significant overall though, if you're saying it is the whole 50bhp just from that it would have to be a direct 1:1 correlation with combustion efficiency (fuel delivery and spray improvement would be the root of the pressure difference) - no chance.mantikos wrote: Well you should be surprised then - I am not attributing a number to the increase, all I am saying is, they took a whole year to develop this and the efficiency increase is supposed to be significant.
I believe that driver not directly operate the clutch, apart from launch. But I'm certain that the clutch is still used during shifts - probably just automatically. I cant see how the gearbox lasts so long without having to use a clutch for shifting.PhillipM wrote:Why must they? They don't even use the clutch apart from at launch.
Oh come on. The picture was from the Honda VFR1200. No MotoGP bike ran a dual clutch transmission. The only F1 team that is known to ran a dual clutch transmission was Williams. They abandoned it after 1 year because it is clearly heavier than a "classical" F1 Transmission that just uses the right moment to engage the next gear. This is also the reason, that they have to let the electronics "learn" their shifting parameters at the beginning of a weekend (or at least when they use a new transmission).NewtonMeter wrote:I believe that driver not directly operate the clutch, apart from launch. But I'm certain that the clutch is still used during shifts - probably just automatically. I cant see how the gearbox lasts so long without having to use a clutch for shifting.PhillipM wrote:Why must they? They don't even use the clutch apart from at launch.
I would perhaps stop telling other people how things work until you've discovered that yourself then. Even most roadbikes don't use the clutch to go up through the gears.NewtonMeter wrote:I believe that driver not directly operate the clutch, apart from launch. But I'm certain that the clutch is still used during shifts - probably just automatically. I cant see how the gearbox lasts so long without having to use a clutch for shifting.PhillipM wrote:Why must they? They don't even use the clutch apart from at launch.
Yet you countered my 4-5bhp estimate with what, then? I did some (basic, admittedly) math to give a best guess as what you could reasonably expect from that kind of pressure increase in terms of combustion efficiency, and that's what it comes out at, so if it's much more significant as you say, can I have some reasoning other than 'the press said so'?mantikos wrote: Never even implied that let alone say that
Right after I see your math - lets see those calculations.PhillipM wrote:Yet you countered my 4-5bhp estimate with what, then? I did some (basic, admittedly) math to give a best guess as what you could reasonably expect from that kind of pressure increase in terms of combustion efficiency, and that's what it comes out at, so if it's much more significant as you say, can I have some reasoning other than 'the press said so'?mantikos wrote: Never even implied that let alone say that
Never said that you don't get more horsepower. I said it won't give that much because (1), mercedes always had a 500 bar system. Even the BOSCH system on street cars have 500 bar. It was only unfounded rumours that they had a 300 bar system.Ferraripilot wrote:To the poster who stated injection pressure does not result on more power.
A higher pressure direct injection system allows the same amount of fuel to be sprayed at a finer and more controlled mist resulting in more molecules being exposed to the flame front which results in quicker ignition of all molecules which yields more torque. Higher injection pressure is indeed directly related to torque and efficiency because of the above. If the Mercedes engine were operating at a 200-300bar system which is what was conjectured they ran, then going to 500bar or thereabouts would indeed increase efficiency.
Dual clutch transmissions are banned in F1.PlatinumZealot wrote:Formula 1 has one clutch pack as far as I know. It may not be a smooth engaging as 2 clutches but it is just as fast and much, much lighter. For two clutches the gearbox get very very complicated. You need two input shafts for that.
Even if they were allowed no-one would use it. A sequential 'box is far lighter, faster, smaller and more reliable in the short term.Boost wrote:Dual clutch transmissions are banned in F1.PlatinumZealot wrote:Formula 1 has one clutch pack as far as I know. It may not be a smooth engaging as 2 clutches but it is just as fast and much, much lighter. For two clutches the gearbox get very very complicated. You need two input shafts for that.
