Mclaren MP4-29H

[akshat21]

http://estaticos01.marca.com/imagenes/2 ... on_7_1.jpg

http://estaticos02.marca.com/deporte/mo ... totipo.jpg

Maybe it's me or the lighting. But the nose looks Mercish..

[CjC]

I can't see 10% gain on the ICE wouldn't equate to a second per lap, would an increase of 50bhp equate to a second per lap? Ask Red bull..... Haha

Suppose I've kinda answered my own question there.... Ha

[acosmichippo]

I was thinking it looks more like Force India.

But I think it's just the angle and its the nose they've had all season.

[Trocola]

It is the same nose they have been running this season

[trinidefender]

Interesting. McLaren have been careful to only provide shots from the side and and above/side. No shots from the front or rear of the car. I think this is partially to do with the fact that they want to show off the "Honda" sign on the car and also so that people looking at the pictures have no idea if they changed the size of the cooling intakes/exhausts.

I was hoping to get some pictures from the front and rear to compare that for the specific reason to try to tell if the Honda unit needs more, less or the same cooling as the Merc. If we could see this then it might give some insight into the heat rejection requirements of the Honda unit.

As it stands now, it APPEARS that the same cooling intakes/exhausts are used as on the Merc powered car, even down to the chimneys on the edges of the sidepods. This would indicate that the Honda unit has similar cooling requirements as the Merc unit. McLaren openly said that they weren't running the car hard and as such cooling demands would be lower, I don't think that tells the whole story though. There must have been at least a few full throttle runs and as such will require the same cooling capacity as a car ready to race (at least as far as the ICE is concerned), this leads me to believe that the cooling capacity they used is sufficient to race with.

Cooling required for this seasons power units roughly corresponds to the efficiency to some degree because of the fuel flow limit.

From what I can see and the available information I would make a guess that the Honda unit isn't that far behind the Merc unit as per cooling requirements and maybe efficiency. This bodes well from what I can see of the Honda unit.

A second option, and being a McLaren/Honda fan would be very good to hear, would be that some of the cooling intakes/exhausts have been blocked off inside the bodywork and that the Honda power unit actually requires less cooling than required by the Merc power unit. Should this be true that should indicate that the Honda power unit turns more fuel into energy to the crank than waste heat that needs to be rejected by the cooling system. This would be a dream ideal but is impossible to tell if it is even remotely possible with the current pictures.

As it stands it appears that the cooling requirements are generally similar to the Merc power unit and to me gives me a little more confidence that Honda are progressing quite well.

P.s. Would a mod mind putting a sticky on this topic to allow this thread to go to the top of the list when it is posted on?

[Moose]

I was hoping to get some pictures from the front and rear to compare that for the specific reason to try to tell if the Honda unit needs more, less or the same cooling as the Merc. If we could see this then it might give some insight into the heat rejection requirements of the Honda unit.

You wouldn't have got any useful info anyway. This run will have been done with everything opened up more than usual, so that they were guaranteed stable running. They will have been able to gauge real world cooling requirements from that, without risking getting it too hot and braking down.

[Sasha]

That was a major point of their design of their last F1 engines from 2000-2008.
Less cooling requirement for their engines.

Also for their production Hybrid Cars,their lithium-ion battery packs are air cooled to most other manufacturers using liquid cooled battery packs.Honda works very hard to keep cooling requirements to the bare mininum.

[Hobbs04]

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/u ... a-2014.jpg

Regarding cooling - notice the gills around the coke bottle. To me that indicates the Honda requires more cooling.

I bet the Honda is ahead of 2014 class but what the other 3 manufacturers gain if the real question.

[bhall II]

Those vents have been there off and on all year.

The car looks pretty much the same, which is sensible, because there's no reason to introduce new variables unless it's absolutely necessary.



The real challenge for Honda is going to be systems integration. If anything trips them up next year, I think it will be that. Frankly, I'd be very surprised if it doesn't.

[trinidefender]

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/u ... a-2014.jpg

Regarding cooling - notice the gills around the coke bottle. To me that indicates the Honda requires more cooling.

I bet the Honda is ahead of 2014 class but what the other 3 manufacturers gain if the real question.

McLaren has been running those cooling gills at the back of the car all season so moot point there I think.

About a previous post saying that they would run a conservative cooling package. To that I would say I doubt that. My reasoning is simple. If they are testing the integration of the packaging then they will want to get an idea of how close to original designs they are on their cooling requirements.

If you think back to pre-season testing for the 2014 season then you will remember that a major problem that many teams had is that they had miscalculated the various cooling requirements of various parts of the power unit. Remember red bull actually started cutting cooling vents into their car during the testing to solve problems. If McLaren runs a cooling package that is to conservative for this test then it defeats the whole idea behind avoiding those sorts of problems.

[mclaren111]

" By Andrew Benson, Chief F1 writer for BBC

McLaren have run new partner Honda's turbo hybrid engine for the first time at Silverstone.
The team, who are starting a 10-year works partnership with the Japanese manufacturer in 2015, have built an interim car to test the engine"

Why is all the reports so far stating that works partnership is for 1/2 years only.

The 10 years deal sounds much more like what Ron would expect and get. 2nd & 3rd customers teams will follow as to be expected.

[aral]

Why are so many getting worked up about the looks of the car. It is just the normal 29 but with the Honda engine fitted. All ancilliaries are as per the usual car, including nose, rads, sidepods etc etc. the car was not running at any speed and was purely a demo for filming. We have no idea what was under the engine cover!

[Blackout]

The only information I need is wether Mclaren has already built a new gearbox for this test car or not... if no, that means the Honda Pu has a Merc split turbo design and has atleast the same dimensions as the Merc.
BTW, it's me or the rear top wishbones look different? anyway they look as big as any other Merc engined car rear wishbones...

[zac510]

If you think back to pre-season testing for the 2014 season then you will remember that a major problem that many teams had is that they had miscalculated the various cooling requirements of various parts of the power unit. Remember red bull actually started cutting cooling vents into their car during the testing to solve problems. If McLaren runs a cooling package that is to conservative for this test then it defeats the whole idea behind avoiding those sorts of problems.

In a recent Racecar Engineering article Newey was quoted as saying it wasn't a miscalculation of cooling requirements but a problem with localised heat.

[mclaren111]

Blackout234 The only information I need is wether Mclaren has already built a new gearbox for this test car or not... if no, that means the Honda Pu has a Merc split turbo design and has atleast the same dimensions as the Merc.
BTW, it's me or the rear top wishbones look different? anyway they look as big as any other Merc engined car rear wishbones...

They look different to me as well !!!