Team: Adrian Newey (CTO), Rob Marshall (CD), Peter Prodromou (HA), Christian Horner (TP) Drivers: Sebastian Vettel (1), Daniel Ricciardo (3), Sébastian Buemi (Reserve), António Félix Da Costa (Reserve) Team name: Infiniti Red Bull Racing
A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
Juzh wrote:
It really seems full focus has gone to developing RB11 long ago.
This is something I can't understand. If the same statement would have been made last year, it was perfectly understandable. When regulations are staying same, except for front wing, there is loads of learning that you can do by concentrating on current car.
I agree. However, utter lack of any developments, on a red bull of all cars, is highly unprecedented, don't you think? Imo the only logical explanation is major 2015 development push.
Those hundreds upon hundreds of millions of $ have to go somewhere after all.
marcush. wrote:the lack of obvious development may as well be the indication of just how much Adrian Newey was driving the ball in the years gone.
Adrian is fully involved in RB11 development. RB11 will be the last car with him beeing lead designer.
prince wrote:Unless Renault is coming up with a totally different engine and it requires Red Bull to redesign their current car. Yeah, then it is meaningless to concentrate on current car. Track testing isn't available in abundance and it is such an important aspect of any development and when you do not see a lot of intent here, its hard to believe that next year they will come out with some kind of magic.
It think that's exactly what happened. As soon as it was clear in 2014 that Renault will only build it's engine for RBR and other teams will get same, they started to focus on 2015 as they knew (with engine freeze) they won't be able to attack Mercedes this year. So most wind tunnel and simulation hours spent for 2015 car... Anything else doesn't make much sense for me, as already stated in the last posts, RBR have always been king of in season development.
The question is also when they lack 75bhp. During qualifying everybody does their lap with a fully charged battery and will be able to spend the full 4MJ. We've seen that in qualy the deficit between red bull and mercedes is not that big, so I don't think that concerning peak performance they are anything near 75bhp less. Maybe around 30.
However during the race, the renault PU is less able to harvest energy. Which means that during the race the bhp deficit is bigger.
"If you check the speed through curves, we are always the best, our aerodynamic frame-set, is still the most efficient. Unfortunately we do not have the power that we need. When you have 75 hp less, does not matter where the drains are in place. This is a fundamental difference. "
Does Horner take into account the different amount of drag generated between the W05 and RB10? what about the weight?* IMO the Merc generates less drag and weights less. And the Merc doesnt spend as much electrical anergy as the Renault PU eliminating turbo lag, for example... does the Merc PU have lag at all
I dont think so. He's always exagerating things when it comes to the engine...
BTW, Rob Marshall said in the last Racecarengineering that they managed to get the RB10 under the minumum weight and have some freedom regarding ballast/weight distribution...
Blackout wrote:Does Horner take into account the different amount of drag generated between the W05 and RB10? what about the weight?* IMO the Merc generates less drag and weights less. And the Merc doesnt spend as much electrical anergy as the Renault PU eliminating turbo lag, for example... does the Merc PU have lag at all
I dont think so. He's always exagerating things when it comes to the engine...
BTW, Rob Marshall said in the last Racecarengineering that they managed to get the RB10 under the minumum weight and have some freedom regarding ballast/weight distribution...
Being the fastest in corners isn't always the fastest way around the track. You can pile on the DF in Monza say we were the fastest through the corners but, that won't give you the fastest overall laptime. Red Bull have always piled on the DF but this year the regulations have changed a slick car like the Williams is much more competitive because is the bigger delta between a high DF setup and a low DF setup. In the V8 era, the difference between high df and low df setup in top speed wasn't that significant which meant that more DF was the way to go. But this year more DF is always the fastest way around the track because difference in top speed can be 15-30kph rater then 10kph. This almost cought Mercedes out in Austria this year when the Williams was extremely close. Red Bull striped its car of the extra flaps on the front wing this year when the saw the ramifications of it. Even if they gain 75hp the RB10 wouldn't beat the W05, because the RBR10 wasn't a great car. Even Toro Rosso was quicker then the Red Bull in qualifying around Sochi and the STR isn't a great car either. So its not only about missing horsepower, this year their car is subpar and Horner needs to acknowledge that too.
Last edited by kooleracer on 18 Nov 2014, 18:06, edited 2 times in total.
Irvine:"If you don't have a good car you can't win it, unless you are Michael or Senna. Lots of guys won in Adrian Newey's cars, big deal. Adrian is the real genius out there, there is Senna, there is Michael and there is Newey.They were the three great talents."
