2014 Abu Dhabi GP - Yas Marina

[Kingshark]

In 6 instances in qually Lewis didn't or was not in the position to put in his fast lap, so the notion that Nico is faster or better in qually is plain rubbish. While some of it where his own mistakes (Silverstone) he's been a bit unlucky.

* Bahrain lockup.
* Silverstone not putting in a fast one.
* Monaco Nico parked it.
* Austria has a massive rear lockup wich the team admitted was technical.
* Spa glazing on his brakes. massive lockups on his fast lap in T1.
* Hungary his car catches fire in Q1 fails to set a time
* Germany again has a critical brake failure and end up in the barriers at full speed.

Nico has been a lucky boy. Lewis is imo still the fastest man in F1 but i think particuly this year he has focused more on racepace setup rather than qually setup. Even with Nico's perfect lap in Singapore, Lewis was still faster while he had a massive lockup in T1. When all is said and done we all know who's the faster driver.

Nico's banker lap in Bahrain was 3 tenths quicker. No visible mistakes on Lewis's lap either.
Again, in Belgium it was the same story, Nico's banker was much quicker. Likewise in Monaco.

And since drivers mistakes apparently does not equal to a fair defeat in qualifying (on your own accord) I can play the same game.

1. In Australia, Nico was faster until he ran wide and missed the chicane, this trip across the gravel meant that he couldn't put in a final lap.
2. In China, Nico was up on Lewis's pole time in Sector 2 before he ran wide at the hairpin. Then he spun on his next attempt.
3. In Spain, Nico was again faster but made too many small errors on his final lap.

All in all, Nico is every bit as fast as the "new Senna" in qualifying, if not faster. I know this is difficult to accept, but it's the harsh truth.

[MercedesAMGSpy]

In 6 instances in qually Lewis didn't or was not in the position to put in his fast lap, so the notion that Nico is faster or better in qually is plain rubbish. While some of it where his own mistakes (Silverstone) he's been a bit unlucky.

* Bahrain lockup.
* Silverstone not putting in a fast one.
* Monaco Nico parked it.
* Austria has a massive rear lockup wich the team admitted was technical.
* Spa glazing on his brakes. massive lockups on his fast lap in T1.
* Hungary his car catches fire in Q1 fails to set a time
* Germany again has a critical brake failure and end up in the barriers at full speed.

Nico has been a lucky boy. Lewis is imo still the fastest man in F1 but i think particuly this year he has focused more on racepace setup rather than qually setup. Even with Nico's perfect lap in Singapore, Lewis was still faster while he had a massive lockup in T1. When all is said and done we all know who's the faster driver.

Nico's banker lap in Bahrain was 3 tenths quicker. No visible mistakes on Lewis's lap either.
Again, in Belgium it was the same story, Nico's banker was much quicker. Likewise in Monaco.

And since drivers mistakes apparently does not equal to a fair defeat in qualifying (on your own accord) I can play the same game.

1. In Australia, Nico was faster until he ran wide and missed the chicane, this trip across the gravel meant that he couldn't put in a final lap.
2. In China, Nico was up on Lewis's pole time in Sector 2 before he ran wide at the hairpin. Then he spun on his next attempt.
3. In Spain, Nico was again faster but made too many small errors on his final lap.

All in all, Nico is every bit as fast as the "new Senna" in qualifying, if not faster. I know this is difficult to accept for Lewis fans, but it's the harsh truth.

Very hard to accept, I think the replay of the 10 wins will help them to accept that.

Seriously, this is a technical forum, but the only thing I read here today is utter horseshit/attacking fans/hard to accept bullshit. We have enough forums filled with that.

[Richard]

Seriously, this is a technical forum, but the only thing I read here today is utter horseshit/attacking fans/hard to accept bullshit. We have enough forums filled with that.

You are of course correct. Sometimes it's hard to let the fallacies pass without biting.

It has given me a great idea for my next pay rise conversation with my boss. If I ask him to ignore my loss making mistakes he'll see that I'm really really profitable for him.

[Kingshark]

Very hard to accept, I think the replay of the 10 wins will help them to accept that.

No one argues against the fact that Lewis is better on Sunday, but the denial of Nico being better on Saturday is rather extraordinary, especially some of the mind-blowing excuses.

[MercedesAMGSpy]

Seriously, this is a technical forum, but the only thing I read here today is utter horseshit/attacking fans/hard to accept bullshit. We have enough forums filled with that.

You are of course correct. Sometimes it's hard to let the fallacies pass without biting.

It has given me a great idea for my next pay rise conversation with my boss. If I ask him to ignore my loss making mistakes he'll see that I'm really really profitable for him.

When every message begins with ''hard to accept'' and ''I don't like your fav driver and his fans'', maybe it's better we become an Autosport.com subforum, then we can attack eachother every day here.

@Kingshark

I have no problem with admitting that, but I think you can communicate that in a different way.

[Kingshark]

I edited it out.

Regardless or not of whether my post had an aggressive tone to it, my point is still correct. Lewis is no faster than Nico over one lap, if not slower. For some individuals (not to call out any names or fanbases) this notion seems extremely difficult to accept, since many of the excuses to explain an 11-7 score are rather laughable.

Germany and Hungary I can understand, Monaco maybe. Everywhere else, we've had a straight fight.

[Phil]

I think the main issue here is semantics. No one is arguing against facts. Regarding qualifying; the most accurate assessment of this season is that Rosberg indeed has beaten Hamilton. No ifs and buts. This doesnt necesseraly mean that he was faster, which i think is what some people are questioning. It's not without merit too, this being a technical forum where one tends to analyse. It's undeniable that Lewis has had technical issues in some QF session this year that has prevented him of a fair shoot out. Doesnt mean he would have succeeded. As a Hamilton fan, i am very impressed by Rosbergs qualifying ability. The sheer fact that they are close to neck by neck every single venue is outstanding and impressive. I expect no less tomorrow.

One thing to add; i think Hamilton shines more in qualifying relative to his team mates when the car isnt as planted and easy to drive. Given the dominance of the Mercedes this year, i think it has reduced the gap in performance. Make the car more difficult to drive and the opposite happens; whichnis why a driver of Alonsos caliber (adaptive) out qualifies his team mate(s) race by race and huge margins!

[PlatinumZealot]

I think Hamilton is faster but Nico is just more calculating and precise. Nico has to premeditate to beat HAM, which he has done quite successfully in qualifying a number of times.
However, If you subtract the times when Hamilton could not complete qualifying for reason's other than mistakes.. He has beaten Nico more often.
Nico is not as fast as Hamilton but his qualifying is just about there. Qualifying is not just about raw speed but how you execute over the one lap.

[atanatizante]

In the drivers press conference Rosberg is talking for real or just BS about how hard it is to pass here :

http://www.youtube.com/embed/SI8ag6LnPm ... autoplay=1

Just look at Hulk`s reaction ... and Jenson`s too ...

Maybe he`s wright coz a couple of weeks ago, in Sao Paolo, Lewis was not able to pass Nico on the pit straight coz he only managed 13kph more than the latter ...

Regarding Lewis being a faster qualifier than Nico, I think there are some considerations that are worth taking into account:
1.Nowadays there are less important to start from pole, not to mention that W05 is such a great car that could almost everywhere could end a race on second place, even starting from the dead end of the grid.
2.There are only few races, like Monaco, where pole position has more emphasis over the race outcome.
3.Being more (if not entirely) biased towards a race setup it could lead for Qualy in not putting enough heat into the tyres (hence slower times), but it would be beneficiary in the race with managing longer stints which could end with a hot lap, like Lewis did in Brasil, hopping to undercut a driver with a better strategy,
4.Least but not last, all that matters is what happens on Sundays, therefore you should be more focused (if not solely concentrated) on race setup ...

Maybe Lewis knows better after all, don`t you guys think?

[Manoah2u]

Lewis would want to win this GP because he wants to win. That aside, lewis also wants to win the WDC.

Also, lewis has learned tactics over the past years. One tactic he'll have in mind; finish 2nd and you'll be WDC.
So if he has 2 choices; RISK to go for the win, or SAFE 2nd - then i'll say he's smart enough or atleast has become
smart enough to avoid taking a risk and go for the safe bet. The Merc is fast enough to essentially guarantee 2nd place.

A DNF would ruin everything, so he'll avoid that and if that means managing things, then he'll settle for 2nd just as easy. No need to enhance risk on mechanical error by blindly blazing and pushing everything to the limit for a not neccesarily win.

Though Lewis wants to win and grab pole, he'll have another thought in the back of his mind; starting 2nd from the grid is safer in comparison to starting pole position with Nico BEHIND him. 1st or 2nd position in a first-lap-first-corner chaos isn't that huge of a difference, but having your main opponent right behind or aside you in the first-lap-first-corner of a championship deciding race, is a gigantic difference.

Even if Rosberg wouldn't be as 'dirty' as to do a little 'trick'.....and god knows there are reasons enough whether to doubt Rosberg really wouldn't go for a dirty trick......in a situation like this, you could wonder if there would be any driver at all not to see if he'd get a little 'touch and go'. Would Vettel? Would Bottas? Would Massa?

So grabbing 2nd grid postion actually might be Lewis' preference. After all, only 1 in 5 races has the polesitter won the Abu Dhabi GP and three times as many victories have come from starting second on the grid than they have from pole.

So just some small mathematics would do Lewis enough good to think about it for a second and instead of going all-out in Qualy, go for a time just short of the times Rosberg runs in Q3. Then take it easy at the first corner and keep within Nico's distance to maintain his presence in provoking either a mistake from a pressurised Rosberg [ and easily claim a win ], or to see if it's worth the risk/trouble of using race tactic to overtake during pitstops. After seeing how things went this year, a safety car for Abu Dhabi is almost a guarantee, so frankly, i'd think either way Lewis will prefer to keep his car 2nd.

If he tactically puts his car in front of Nico without running the risk of having a colission [ thus overtaking Nico outside of a one-on-one battle ], he still maintains the huge risk of encountering the safety car and having a bloodhungry Nico behind him. So frankly, if I was lewis, i'd take 2nd place with all the happiness in the world during the entire race and not risk driving 1st during the entire race - and just see if he could get lucky of having Nico make some gigantic mistake or get a DNF and have the bonus win.

Whatever Nico does, Lewis 2nd equals a WDC for Lewis.

[Juzh]

Maybe Lewis knows better after all, don`t you guys think?

no.

[flmkane]

Joe Saward trolling in the pc: http://youtu.be/fuZ7js-eSog?t=36m38s

McLaren should hire Mika Hakkinen just to answer those questions.

[Just_a_fan]

Even if Rosberg wouldn't be as 'dirty' as to do a little 'trick'.....and god knows there are reasons enough whether to doubt Rosberg really wouldn't go for a dirty trick......in a situation like this, you could wonder if there would be any driver at all not to see if he'd get a little 'touch and go'. Would Vettel? Would Bottas? Would Massa?

Hamilton will have in his mind what Rosberg did at Spa. In that regard, what Rosberg did at Spa will have worked because it will make Hamilton that bit more wary of a touch that causes him a DNF. The question is, will Rosberg do it again? I think the answer is yes. If Rosberg gets pole and leads in to T1 then I think Hamilton will manage his race to finish second and take the title. If Rosberg tries, as suggested by someone here previously, to back Hamilton in to the pack then I think Hamilton will go for the lead and dare Rosberg to try it again.

One question that comes to mind - if there is a Hamilton-DNF clash caused by Rosberg will the team tell Rosberg his car is damaged and park it? Will the team want a "dirty" champion? They get a champion either way so WCC and WDC are theirs - they just get to choose how shiny they are...now that would be a conspiracy hypothesis for the winter!

[turbof1]

I think the main issue here is semantics. No one is arguing against facts. Regarding qualifying; the most accurate assessment of this season is that Rosberg indeed has beaten Hamilton. No ifs and buts. This doesnt necesseraly mean that he was faster, which i think is what some people are questioning. It's not without merit too, this being a technical forum where one tends to analyse. It's undeniable that Lewis has had technical issues in some QF session this year that has prevented him of a fair shoot out. Doesnt mean he would have succeeded. As a Hamilton fan, i am very impressed by Rosbergs qualifying ability. The sheer fact that they are close to neck by neck every single venue is outstanding and impressive. I expect no less tomorrow.

One thing to add; i think Hamilton shines more in qualifying relative to his team mates when the car isnt as planted and easy to drive. Given the dominance of the Mercedes this year, i think it has reduced the gap in performance. Make the car more difficult to drive and the opposite happens; whichnis why a driver of Alonsos caliber (adaptive) out qualifies his team mate(s) race by race and huge margins!

I readed somewhere, I can't remember where, is that although both set their car up in the same way, Lewis drives more on intuition, while Rosberg applies clinically precision when it comes to attacking corners.
That means that in a normal qualifying, Rosberg knows exactly how he'll drive. Hamilton on the other hand drives more to how the grip feels like. It's very miniscule difference, but it means that in a normal qualifying Rosberg will beat Hamilton due being that small bit more precise.
However, in changing conditions calculating your approach isn't worthwhile since grip levels change by the second. This is where Hamilton's approach shines through, because he'll adapt much faster. There are exceptions, like Q at Spa 2014 (although Hamilton suffered glazed brake disks) and Silverstone (which actually was more a tactical error).

Ultimately, Rosberg's approach is better, which does make him the better qualifier. Ever so slightly, because the margins between these 2 are so small.

[LionKing]

When did the team admit that Austria was a technical issue? The 2 races where his quali was ruined because of technical issue were Hungary and Germany.

Austrian GP: Lewis Hamilton qualifying spin not a car issue:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/114574