Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2014

[i70q7m7ghw]

If you want to try to measure the dominance based on pace, look at fastest laps. Still not perfect, because the lead car is likely to coast to the finish towards the end of the race, when the cars tend to be quicker.

What you look at is

1, points
1, wins
2, front row lockouts
3, race 1-2´s
4, reliability
5, time delta on average to nearest competitor


The RB7 was a very dominant car but it was not as dominant as the Mercedes.
Yes points wise it was fairly close but only because of point 4 in regards to the Mercedes.

In terms of actual pace compared to it´s rivals the RB7 is not even in the same solar system.
The RB7 got beaten on pure pace at venues like Nurburgring and Suzuka.

The W05 by contrast has never been beaten on pure pace.

Race 1-2s and front row lockouts are dependent on driver, so you can't use those. You have to take the performance of the lead car as the marker, the second driver just didn't maximise the car.

I never said the RB7 was more dominant, or equal, it just said it wasn't that far behind, the F2004 was probably even closer.

[elf341]

What a load of tripe. It's not the car's fault one of the drivers wasn't able to extract the full potential.

Nico Rosberg did a good job of maximizing the potential of the W05, Lewis Hamilton obviously was even better. Mark Webber, Rubens Barrichello, these guys weren't able to make the most of the dominant cars they were given, for whatever reasons (team orders,bad luck etc.)

Well, perhaps this is why our assessment diverges: "It's not the car's fault one of the drivers wasn't able to extract the full potential."

It may be a matter of personal philosophy, but to my perception I see it as fairly logical that if only *one* driver is able to extract the full potential from the car, that is to the credit of the driver and not to the credit of the car.

To me, for a car to be properly dominant, I could put e.g. Sutil into it and he would be winning races, or coming 2nd behind his teammate. Anything else, and I'd have to say it was the man-and-machine combination that produced the domination - and not solely the product of the engineering department.


(Perhaps the moderators have already pinned their colours to the wall, having moved our discussion about car performance into the team(!) thread)

[Shrieker]

@Just_a_fan,

But Merc. won't be resting on their laurels, will they ? Others catching them very much depends on how much of the new formula's potential they managed to unlock this season. If there is more scope (i think there is), Merc will still have a sizable advantage next year.

[kooleracer]

I expect the other teams to catch up over the winter. The W05's trick bits such as the turbo installation and the intercooler packaging can now be copied / developed by others. The W05's aero was obviously excellent but it wasn't head and shoulders above the others in the way the RedBull has been in recent years.

I hope Mercedes don't suffer the way Brawn did - one great season whilst others picked themselves up, then back to the midfield.

I expect 2015 to be much closer at the front...

I would say that the Mercedes aero was head and shoulders above every other team. Just look at the difference between Williams and McLaren. And also difference in race pace between Mercedes and the rest. When Red Bull was dominant in 2013. The gap between the pole lap and the Mercedes was really small at times. Mercedes W04 was really quick car and had really good aero also. The Achilles heal of the W04 was tire wear. Even during the second part of the season the gap in qualifying was really small and you have to keep in mind that Mercedes didn't develop the car as much as Red Bull did. So the W05 definitely has great Aero because in quali mode the W04 was really close to the Red Bull. The Renault engine was the engine to have or have you forget all the weird noises the Renault engine made in the Red Bull. Renault put a lot of resources in the V8, while Mercedes was developing the V6 turbo. To dominate an era you need to create a headstart for your self. In 2015 the competition will be closer but the restriction on the engine part will hamper the competition. McLaren-Honda is the only hope for 2015. They should fill the gap between Mercedes and the rest.

In F1 you have to be on point in every departement if you wan't to dominate. Mercedes had FRIC and the twin-tusk suspension, also the carbon gearbox casing that allows quick geometry changes without replacing the gearbox. So the mechanics of the car are brilliant, that shows in the lack of tire wear. Also the new seamless shift gearbox. The amount of detail on the FW and underneath the nose and the floor is incredible. The W05 is good in every area that showed in the results there wasn't really one track where they struggled this year. Like the MP4/4, F2004 and the RB7 the W05 dominated the whole season. So to say that the aero wasn't on par with those cars is a bit strange. That car was on rails during the whole season the onboard looked like the RB7 onboard. Minimal inputs, minimal corrections a perfectly balanced car that was easy to maximize because of the brilliant aerodynamics.

Adrian Newey (Red Bull) isn't the only person in the paddock that can make brilliant aerodynamics cars. Lowe, Willis, Costa, Bell and Elliot are no idiots when it comes to aerodynamics to have all helped build world championship cars before. It's a little bit patronizing to say that the W05 wasn't brilliant when you consider the persons that came up with that concept and the pedigree that those individuals have. Also I would think that Ross would not hire those people if they were incompetent.

[Shrieker]

I think someone had written before here that the main difference between Williams and McLaren this season was systems integration and ECU software. Mercedes gave more support to Williams. With Toto's shares and all... On the other hand tho, I recall Button saying that WSR cars were probably faster than the MP4-29 in high speed corners. Somebody made that statement a forum signature lol.

[SectorOne]

Race 1-2s and front row lockouts are dependent on driver, so you can't use those.

Just like all of them are dependent on driver and car. You can certainly use them.

I never said the RB7 was more dominant, or equal, it just said it wasn't that far behind, the F2004 was probably even closer.

Based on what numbers?

[Just_a_fan]

@Just_a_fan,

But Merc. won't be resting on their laurels, will they ? Others catching them very much depends on how much of the new formula's potential they managed to unlock this season. If there is more scope (i think there is), Merc will still have a sizable advantage next year.

Of course they will develop the W06 to be better than the W05. I just wonder how much of the W05's dominance was in the engine installation and thus how much can be more readily adopted by other teams. Aero is difficult to copy because it is nose-to-tail and everything works with everything else. The clever intercooling packaging and the way the turbo was integrated can be copied more easily. The question is: how much did they bring to the W05's dominance? If none, then the car won by horsepower and aero/mech grip alone (driver contribution notwithstanding); that will be difficult to beat because the team is the only one with that aero/mech grip data. Williams have a year of engine info and can no doubt look at the W05's installation (so far as public info is available of course) and try to gain from that.

[Just_a_fan]

Adrian Newey (Red Bull) isn't the only person in the paddock that can make brilliant aerodynamics cars. Lowe, Willis, Costa, Bell and Elliot are no idiots when it comes to aerodynamics to have all helped build world championship cars before. It's a little bit patronizing to say that the W05 wasn't brilliant when you consider the persons that came up with that concept and the pedigree that those individuals have. Also I would think that Ross would not hire those people if they were incompetent.

Although Horner's continual bleating on about the engine disparity was annoying, it did highlight one thing; a team with spare horsepower can afford to carry more downforce (and hence drag) than those around it. The W05 might only have been so good because they could afford to wear a bit more wing than those around them whilst not losing top speed. So perhaps the engine was the key element in this year's dominance. Next year the various Mercedes cars' engine installations will be closer in efficiency which should close the gap. We won't know until next season.

[Shrieker]

An interesting stat about Hamilton and Schumacher: At the close of their 29th age both scored the same number of F1 wins; 33. Though to Schumacher's credit, he did it in one less season; 7 to Hamilton's 8.

[Raleigh]

I expect the other teams to catch up over the winter. The W05's trick bits such as the turbo installation and the intercooler packaging can now be copied / developed by others. The W05's aero was obviously excellent but it wasn't head and shoulders above the others in the way the RedBull has been in recent years.

I hope Mercedes don't suffer the way Brawn did - one great season whilst others picked themselves up, then back to the midfield.

I expect 2015 to be much closer at the front...

Brawn started a new era very strong, but lacked the money to perform more than minimal development of their car and were overtaken before the season had ended. This also impacted development of their next car, the W01 was a comparatively tame evolution of a car that was already just the 2nd or 3rd fastest in F1, and Mercedes never caught up to Red Bull during the V8 era.

Meanwhile Mercedes started 2014 just as strong as Brawn in 2009, but this time round had the money for in-season development. Their development pace has been ferocious, sufficient not just to stay ahead but to maintain a sizable gap to the competition from start to finish of the season. At the same time, the team is now big enough to have done that while working full speed on next years car, and even if other teams are closer in 2015 I expect Mercedes to be very much the team to beat.

[prince]

Adrian Newey (Red Bull) isn't the only person in the paddock that can make brilliant aerodynamics cars. Lowe, Willis, Costa, Bell and Elliot are no idiots when it comes to aerodynamics to have all helped build world championship cars before. It's a little bit patronizing to say that the W05 wasn't brilliant when you consider the persons that came up with that concept and the pedigree that those individuals have. Also I would think that Ross would not hire those people if they were incompetent.

Although Horner's continual bleating on about the engine disparity was annoying, it did highlight one thing; a team with spare horsepower can afford to carry more downforce (and hence drag) than those around it. The W05 might only have been so good because they could afford to wear a bit more wing than those around them whilst not losing top speed. So perhaps the engine was the key element in this year's dominance. Next year the various Mercedes cars' engine installations will be closer in efficiency which should close the gap. We won't know until next season.

Well, if just by seeing a naked body of an F1 car, the other's could copy and make a similar car, then Red Bull should have never dominated. Everyone saw the naked RB7 and RB9, but did anyone copied it so much successfully? The "ENGINE INSTALLATION" you are referring to, I am sure you know that isn't a child's puzzle play. Look at the picture and put the puzzle together, right? The current generation F1 car has become so complex that, what appears to outsiders, might just be a tip of ice berg. Now that Honda had FREE access to Merc engine and all the time to make an exact copy, let's see where they stand next year. There are already rumors that Honda has two versions of Engine that they are testing.

In the better interest of the sport, I do would like to see a good competition, but when a highly sophisticated team like Merc, with loads of people and money has such an advantage to start the new era, it's hard to believe they will lose it just like that. I am bracing myself for one more year of utter dominance, without much of a competition, but would like to be surprised.

[CBeck113]

Let's be honest: Mercedes sacrificed 2010 through 2013 in order to achieve the advantage they had this year. And because of this extreme investment in resources and money, they will maintain this advantage through next year as well, unless Honda can step up and compete immediately. The only other teams with a chance are the Mercedes customers, but because they didn't design the electronic control of the engine, they will not be able to design the support systems (regenerative braking, ERS effeciency etc.) to keep up with the works team. They toyed with the rest of the field this year to be able to defend themselves against an unfreeze, which they managed.
Nico will have his chance to beat Lewis next year in a repeat of 2014, but will fail again...mark my words .

[ScottB]

Hamilton was on BBC Breakfast this morning, seemed to suggest he will be keeping number 44 on his car instead of the 1 next year...

[Phil]

I think he had already confirmed this in the Sky post race broadcast. I think it's great; #44 is his number and will always be. #1, while nice on the car, is something that will never be 'his'.

[turbof1]

Well, it's the way you look at it. He has the number #1; he doesn't need to show it, everybody knows he'll be the defending leader.

It's a matter of standing out. It's almost marketing of you will. I wouldn't be surprised if he starts a clothing line named #44 after this .