Mclaren MP4-29H

[Thunder]

Better than what Renault and Ferrari had for sure. We can Compare to Honda in February.

[emaren]

Merc was able to make all the components of their PU work together effectively at the first time running. Does it mean they have a more accurate simulation programme compared to others?

I am sure that I read somewhere that Mercedes had the entire unit running on a rolling-road dyno installed in the back of a mock-up (probably real) F1 tub and were able to piece the whole thing together well in advance of installation in an actual real 2014 car.

Considering that Mclaren effectively converted their current car to run the Honda engine it is not exactly surprising that they ran into issues..

I wonder if this was really more of a publicity stunt that might have resulted in useful data that somehow did not really work out too well

[aleks_ader]

Better than what Renault and Ferrari had for sure. We can Compare to Honda in February.

Source? Or just gut filling?

Yes i agree Honda had HUGE experiances into TURBO V6 blocks and MASSIVE R&D departmendt for many motorport levels. It is true that HDP is well know, but do you have source to actually support that statement.

[Thunder]

Source? Or just gut filling?

Yes i agree Honda had HUGE experiances into TURBO V6 blocks and MASSIVE R&D departmendt for many motorport levels. It is true that HDP is well know, but do you have source to actually support that statement.

The First Pre Season Test is February 1st. This is the Date we can compare to what Merc, Renault and Ferrari had on the First Day of Pre Season testing.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Source? Or just gut filling?

Yes i agree Honda had HUGE experiances into TURBO V6 blocks and MASSIVE R&D departmendt for many motorport levels. It is true that HDP is well know, but do you have source to actually support that statement.

The First Pre Season Test is February 1st. This is the Date we can compare to what Merc, Renault and Ferrari had on the First Day of Pre Season testing.

Some people can't get over the emotions I guess. First outing on a track is what matters and the first outing that Merc, Ferrari and Renault had on track, was in Winter Test. So when you compare the first outings, Honda has failed miserably. It doesn't matter whether it is november or february and whether it is Winter or Summer. Honda has also been working on this project for a long time, they had the advantage of looking at what a Merc PU looks like and performs like. Ask Honda and McLaren themselves, how frustrated they must be.

[Thunder]

@GPR-A: It was stated so often in this Thread why that is not the Case i don't even try to write it again.
Let's just agree to disagree and everyone is happy, ok?

[Blackout]

We cant really compare Honda to the others because we dont know the key dates... when did Honda start it's V6 project?
Renault started it in June 2011. The first version of the race PU has been fired up two years later. and the final version started racing 8 months later.
Honda officially joined Mclaren 1 year and 9 months before the first 2015 race... how old was the Honda project at that time?
And Renault was fighting for the championship with it's V8 while developing the V6, unlike Honda...
When did Mclaren and Mercedes end their partnership?

[alexx_88]

I think many people are forgetting a key element here: money. If you ask yourselves, what was the reason why Mercedes was so far ahead of Renault and Ferrari this year? It's because they had a massive budget that allowed them to start work on this PU very early on and use the necessary equipment to make it happen, no matter the cost. Knowing engineers and being an engineer myself I can definitely imagine meetings where the technical guys in Renault and Ferrari said to the management that they'd like to start earlier, to have this and that in terms of tools, dynos and so on, but the management refused because the budget couldn't be stretched further. The problem is that these decisions normally translate into saving 10$ now, but spending 100$ more later.

So yes, if Honda aren't able to sustain a financial effort of Mercedes' size or even greater, then it's most likely they'll fall behind from the start. You can't seriously imagine them being this bunch of brilliant scientists and engineers while the rest are some apes that can't operate a PC. These new PUs offer so many innovation opportunities and have so much power hidden in the implementation details, that the key is not who has the best minds, but who has the most of them and can give them the resources to search for extra power/efficiency in all the places it can hide.

[Thunder]

True, i think for every other Brand the highest Hope should be to Match the Merc PU somehow. I can't see anyone building a significantly better PU. That Merc thing is just a Beast, that much hast to be admitted.

[turbof1]

I can agree on that too; the regulations are too stringent to bump on a cheap silver bullet. You need a huge budget, and time, to get the PU right.

Honda probably has both the budget and had the time to develop, but it is still tricky. I got my dad claiming Honda will blow everybody away, reïterating their golden age back in the 1980's. I carefully tend to disagree; the scope of development is quite low and so they actually needed this test.

I also read attemtps to compare the Honda engine during winter testing to last year's winter testing. The truth is that Honda needs to have it worked out as good or even better then Mercedes during the 2014 winter testing. The current manufacturer's are passed the first phase of all the issues and will have a relative trouble free winter testing in 2015. Honda needs to do the same, else it'll be on the back foot.

That's why this "interim" test is so important. We can assume Honda did the test at an earlier stage of development then the other manufacturers, so problems were to be expected. They would have cleared some issues on the test bank anyway, but other issues would have stayed hidden.

[oT v1]

Wonder if they'll be any reports of suspicious turbo noises from Montegi or Suzuka in the coming weeks

...or does RBR have satellites watching their tracks too!

[Thunder]

Wonder if they'll be any reports of suspicious turbo noises from Montegi or Suzuka in the coming weeks

...or does RBR have satellites watching their tracks too!

"Nothing to see here, just another NSX Prototype. Keep moving please."

[SilverToM]

Hi all!

I do not know how to formulate the rules in this case. It is possible that the factory yard test their powers?

[Glyn]

True, i think for every other Brand the highest Hope should be to Match the Merc PU somehow. I can't see anyone building a significantly better PU. That Merc thing is just a Beast, that much hast to be admitted.

People are really under-estimating how awesome the Merc car and engine is.

It's the most successful and one of the most dominant F1 cars of all time.... I highly doubt Honda will be able to match that.

[KingHamilton01]

True, i think for every other Brand the highest Hope should be to Match the Merc PU somehow. I can't see anyone building a significantly better PU. That Merc thing is just a Beast, that much hast to be admitted.

People are really under-estimating how awesome the Merc car and engine is.

It's the most successful and one of the most dominant F1 cars of all time.... I highly doubt Honda will be able to match that.

Yeah and I also think people shouldn't underestimate Honda!