Ferrari F14T

[kooleracer]

According to AMuS the 2015 Ferrari powerunit will feature a split turbo design like Mercedes. So hopefully next year with Allison at the helm and a better engine and chasis design Ferrari can atleast be in the hunt like Red Bull and Williams were this year.

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 12004.html In German

[MOWOG]

The engine manufacturers are allowed to change 47% of their engines for 2015. Renault has said it needs to change 60 - 70% of its to even HOPE to achieve parity with the Mercedes unit.

And remember, Mercedes gets to change 47% of its PU too.

The best guess is that Mercedes will continue to have a substantial advantage over the other engine makers next year.

Of course, none of us KNOWS what next year will bring. But any assumption that Ferrari or any other engine manufacturer is going to draw level with Mercedes next year is at best a hope, no matter how fervent.

[mika vs michael]

Ferrari needs a couple things to focus on...first of all strong leadership that knows where to aim...second achieve 2 targets. new engine regulations from 2016 and more track testing...and third gather all resources to build a fast winning car according to the new regs. meaning sacrificing 2015. but they need strong leadership on the political and technical basis. and a lot of key staff...

[kooleracer]

In hindsight the first year the manufacturers should have been allowed to change all parts of the engine during the season. The engine freeze should have started a season later. But lets hope that the F2015 will have less on an engine deficit to the Mercedes.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

AMuS has posted in pictures, the updates the F14T received throughout the year.

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 48190.html

[PlatinumZealot]

Those wheels in he Abu Dahbi test look like new wheels.

[Harsha]

AMuS has posted in pictures, the updates the F14T received throughout the year.

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 48190.html

Thanks for the link mate Things that surprised me is
1. Flaps with different engineers responded to the different output level of the individual routes. Often, Ferrari were a little more wing than the competition(Google Translated )
How Ferrari able to manage a bit more wing than others ?



2. Very Little Front wing Development
Jerez




Spain- Catalunya


Germany




Italy


Russia


Is the lack of Front wing development due to nose change for 2015 or switching for Pull rod to Push rod ?

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Is the lack of Front wing development due to nose change for 2015 or switching for Pull rod to Push rod ?

Here is a very good detailed analysis of the F14T's front wing--> http://www.f1technical.net/features/19217


I think the the lack of FW development as you put it, is down to the fact that this FW is an evolution of previous FW's that has been in the making for years. I assume the car is getting the necessary air flow from the wing that it needs. But I'm only assuming. I think for sure if Ferrari switch back to a push rod front suspension for 2015, we will see a change in the FW for 2015.

[Harsha]

Is the lack of Front wing development due to nose change for 2015 or switching for Pull rod to Push rod ?

Here is a very good detailed analysis of the F14T's front wing--> http://www.f1technical.net/features/19217


I think the the lack of FW development as you put it, is down to the fact that this FW is an evolution of previous FW's that has been in the making for years. I assume the car is getting the necessary air flow from the wing that it needs. But I'm only assuming. I think for sure if Ferrari switch back to a push rod front suspension for 2015, we will see a change in the FW for 2015.

i heard a strong rumour that they will change to Push rod. So it relates with lack of development in this area and what about these in 2015 i heard this doesn't give them enough benefit


Major-ly what i got from that article is Ferrari has got more weight with its compressed engine which overheats mostly and only by summer break they got over the Engine over heating issues. Also with this engine issue they practically used the overweight of the engine as ballast. Along with other things like too little power and too much Thirsty engine compared to renault/Merc

[Crucial_Xtreme]

i heard a strong rumour that they will change to Push rod. So it relates with lack of development in this area and what about these in 2015 i heard this doesn't give them enough benefit

The rumor is they will return to push rod because it's believed its relative benefits are minimal and that the pull rod is hindering fine tuning car set-up. I don't believe the pull rod is responsible for a lack of development on any area of the car.

As for the huge front brake ducts, I have no idea how much benefit they're getting from the blown axle. Perhaps next year the will get sufficient out wash with the FW and won't use the blown axle or maybe it helps quite a bit. We won't know until next year.

[Harsha]

i heard a strong rumour that they will change to Push rod. So it relates with lack of development in this area and what about these in 2015 i heard this doesn't give them enough benefit

The rumor is they will return to push rod because it's believed its relative benefits are minimal and that the pull rod is hindering fine tuning car set-up. I don't believe the pull rod is responsible for a lack of development on any area of the car.

As for the huge front brake ducts, I have no idea how much benefit they're getting from the blown axle. Perhaps next year the will get sufficient out wash with the FW and won't use the blown axle or maybe it helps quite a bit. We won't know until next year.

Ok thank you perhaps this is the difference between an arm chair vs expert in reading rumours

[prince]

Is the lack of Front wing development due to nose change for 2015 or switching for Pull rod to Push rod ?

Here is a very good detailed analysis of the F14T's front wing--> http://www.f1technical.net/features/19217


I think the the lack of FW development as you put it, is down to the fact that this FW is an evolution of previous FW's that has been in the making for years. I assume the car is getting the necessary air flow from the wing that it needs. But I'm only assuming. I think for sure if Ferrari switch back to a push rod front suspension for 2015, we will see a change in the FW for 2015.

Uh.... I feel they have gone backwards if anything, from 2013 to 2o14. When the winter tests started back in February, I did raised this point that F14T is lagging behind in terms of the frontal grip as was evident from their BASIC looking FW, whereas Merc and RB came with, essentially a step forward from where they left in 2013 as they had carried forward their previous FWs. Throughout the year, there wasn't much that happened on F14T FW and I feel that is why Kimi kept losing feel for the front and looked so ordinary.
http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... 84#p479984

I remember how W01 to W03 cars were criticized for having poor front wings and how everyone got excited when they finally saw a 5 element front wing on W04. Generally, front wings have been a mirror to the rear grip that a car has, so that shows F14T's woes.

F138


F14T

[Crucial_Xtreme]

Uh.... I feel they have gone backwards if anything, from 2013 to 2o14. When the winter tests started back in February, I did raised this point that F14T is lagging behind in terms of the frontal grip as was evident from their BASIC looking FW, whereas Merc and RB came with, essentially a step forward from where they left in 2013 as they had carried forward their previous FWs. Throughout the year, there wasn't much that happened on F14T FW and I feel that is why Kimi kept losing feel for the front and looked so ordinary.
http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... 84#p479984

I remember how W01 to W03 cars were criticized for having poor front wings and how everyone got excited when they finally saw a 5 element front wing on W04. Generally, front wings have been a mirror to the rear grip that a car has, so that shows F14T's woes.

So you have deduced that the F14T was lacking in front grip because their front wing looks basic?? Seriously?

Although the wing in your opinion looks basic, I linked to a detailed analysis which clearly details exactly how complex the front wing really is. I'm trying not to be rude here, but looks does not determine the aerodynamic effectiveness of a front wing or any other part for that matter.

[diffuser]

I was surprised to hear about the front end issues. I thought that with the 2014 regulations removing alot of downforce at the rear with the removal of the beam wing and blown exhaust that the front end would be the least of their problems. The front wing, while a little narrower, was still an evolution from the previous years. I thought that the shortening of the slots was just because they couldn't make use of the extra down force at the front since they couldn't generate enough at the rear.

Then again maybe the front end issue came about from of a lack of ballast(PU weight issues) ?

[turbof1]

Uh.... I feel they have gone backwards if anything, from 2013 to 2o14. When the winter tests started back in February, I did raised this point that F14T is lagging behind in terms of the frontal grip as was evident from their BASIC looking FW, whereas Merc and RB came with, essentially a step forward from where they left in 2013 as they had carried forward their previous FWs. Throughout the year, there wasn't much that happened on F14T FW and I feel that is why Kimi kept losing feel for the front and looked so ordinary.
http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... 84#p479984

I remember how W01 to W03 cars were criticized for having poor front wings and how everyone got excited when they finally saw a 5 element front wing on W04. Generally, front wings have been a mirror to the rear grip that a car has, so that shows F14T's woes.

So you have deduced that the F14T was lacking in front grip because their front wing looks basic?? Seriously?

Although the wing in your opinion looks basic, I linked to a detailed analysis which clearly details exactly how complex the front wing really is. I'm trying not to be rude here, but looks does not determine the aerodynamic effectiveness of a front wing or any other part for that matter.

(Thanks for linking to my analysis, Crucial!)

The wing looks very deceptive. Just taking a glance at it makes you think it is simple. When I started to work on the drawing, I thought it to be a walk through the park. I was wrong, it is infact quite complex indeed. The mainplane for instance has although being rather contineous a very complex shape, created to utilise ground effect to the fullest.

I also believe Ferrari is actually the only team to use 7 elements in front of the wheel. Red Bull and Mercedes only use 6. Given each element adds a lot of complexity, I don't think the notion of the ferrari wing being simple stands.

It is perhaps true that Ferrari doesn't choose the solutions from mercedes or red bull. Fact is, this probably works very well for them.

I do confess the lack of updates on the wing is worrying; my general impression of the season is that front wings change according to the amount of downforce is clawed back. Just changing the AoA doesn't cut it anymore since this could lead to all sort of stalling issues and changes the airflow structures. Nowadays if a front wing needs to create more downforce beyond a certain treshold, it needs a redesign. Mercedes did it, Red Bull in a lesser manner, mclaren certainly did. Ferrari did only once with an additional element in the main plane, although probably because they did drop development fairly early in favour of next season.