Engine Unfreeze

[gandharva]

McLaren wants Engine Unfreeze.

It appears that McLaren Honda has met the same fate as Renault and Ferrari.
"Boullier admits he has concerns that Mercedes could be in a position to dominate the sport for years unless the rules are relaxed."

Very good news. So there is hope for a good 2016 season.

[Mesteño]

I think 2016 season would be good without unfreezing too, tokens of 2015+2016 might be enough to copy Mercedes PU don't you think? Despite Mercedes could optimize their unit, gaining should be far less than rest of manufacturers.

[Manoah2u]

McLaren wants Engine Unfreeze.

It appears that McLaren Honda has met the same fate as Renault and Ferrari.
"Boullier admits he has concerns that Mercedes could be in a position to dominate the sport for years unless the rules are relaxed."

It would be very smart of Mclaren/Honda tu suggest such a thing, as if the rules would be relaxed, then they could expand their research and improve their engine even further despite they might be as strong as Merc - they could not, but they could, too.

Now Merc has been very reluctant for less restriction; they have a fair advantage, and to be honest, i don't really blame them as the fact remains all manufacturers were given a clean sheet and fresh start. Renault and Ferrari are in similar league, Merc somehow is way ahead.

However, it might come back and bite them if Honda turns out to be in a surprise upper hand. It's far from impossible; Mercedes has a huge advantage year-first. Why wouldnt' Honda be in a huge advantage their year first?

And what would be Merc's opinion then? If - not likely but hypothetically - Honda turns out to have an advantage over Mercedes like Mercedes had over the rest of the field 2014 season? In other words, What if 2015 is a Honda domination with Mercedes 2 secs per lap off and then the rest of the field somewhere 2 seconds after that? Then what?

[PABLOEING]

The bigger probem is the number of engines...only 4 is ridicolus......

[djos]

The bigger probem is the number of engines...only 4 is ridicolus......

Not wrong, utterly insane!

[diffuser]

It is a challenge ! Very difficult challenge; but then F1 isn't easy.

[djos]

It is a challenge ! Very difficult challenge; but then F1 isn't easy.

The engine rules are just stupid all round, the last time they made sense was when we had one engine and one gearbox per weekend.

[McMrocks]

Those engine rules increase the likelyhood of a title decided by technical problems... If that is what teams, FiA and FOM want... ok then.

I know there are good reasons for those engine rules. In particular the financial problems of the small teams. Just give them a fair share of the money and let them use 7 engines a season. How hard can it be?...

An 6h WEC race is called endurance*... F1 engines have to last 5races a`1.5h (7.5h) and it isn't called endurance. (Practice session ignored in that calculation)

* I don't want to start the discussion whether 6h is endurance or not

[djos]

F1 has never been an endurance series. To contain costs for the customer teams they simply need to introduce a yearly engine supply cost cap. E.g. 10 million per year for 10 engines.

Imo it's highly unlikely the bom for an entire PU is more than about 500k. The research and design costs should be born by the oem as part of the sponsorship deal with their primary team.

[KeiKo403]

I don't totally get the engine freeze rules and how the development tokens work but couldn't Ferrari and Renault (with Red Bull's limitless pot of money) just develop the hell out of their engine's. Put them in 3 old cars and plough them round their own tracks, and then just use the tokens to put the best developments on the actual engines, repeat this year-on-year?

Yes they'll be continually spending money on Engine R&D but come on, they'll only spend that money anyway without the engine freeze.

[Kiss the Apex]

I don't totally get the engine freeze rules and how the development tokens work but couldn't Ferrari and Renault (with Red Bull's limitless pot of money) just develop the hell out of their engine's. Put them in 3 old cars and plough them round their own tracks, and then just use the tokens to put the best developments on the actual engines, repeat this year-on-year?

Yes they'll be continually spending money on Engine R&D but come on, they'll only spend that money anyway without the engine freeze.

I thought that's what they wound be doing anyway? Heck I bet they don't even need to run a new engine at a track, they have worked with the old one for a whole year now and I think they know exactly what needs changing and where their priorities are.

[iotar__]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/117259 F1 teams can develop engines in season after FIA admits loophole

This is "the major stunt" from FIA/Ecclestone I was talking about. If I ever hear about F1 being artificial because of the rules applied equally to everyone this should be the perfect reference point. After radio transmissions farce (or FRIC, or standing restarts etc.) when you change something only to change it back six months later without explanation or consequences now this. Rules mean nothing and they have no shame. FIA 'accepted the loophole" ? These are the same people that wrote Bianchi's crash report or apply penalties every race. This is simply a joke because clearly they have all the time to "clarify" it now, as they did numerous times before using technical directives.

The fact that Boullier, Marchionne and Horner weren't struck by a lightning every time they uttered "good of the sport" while admitting their engine's failure is a clear indication that there is no higher power. "We failed so let's change the rules to suit us" - classic, pinnacle of lies F1. Why didn't you include equalising in case someone is too much in front or behind in engine change rules? Big brains of F1 didn't think about it at the time? Why not extend equalising to other areas, blown exhaust situation in the beginning of 2012 would be the best example. How about you bankroll all the costs of further engine development for your customers and all Mercedes teams using the money you get for nothing from Ecclestone? Thus proving costs are meaningless and for the good of the sport of course.

[FW17]

Too bad we will never see development like this under the current rules

Comparison engine front view BMW E41 / 4, P80 and P82.




Motor BMW E41 / 4, season 2000
BMW P80 ​​engine, season 2001
Motor BMW P82 2002 season

Motor weight
E41/4: 117 kg
P80/1: 105 kg
P82: 86 kg

Height c. gravity
E41/4: 167 mm
P80/1: 145 mm
P82: 125 mm

[McLobby]

NO DEVELOPMENT FREEDOM FOR HONDA

The interpretation that allows Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault to bring in developments over the course of 2015 will not apply to Honda because it is a new manufacturer.

Although the regulations do not specifically state dates for the Japanese car maker to submit its homologated unit, the FIA is standing by its view that it must stick to the February 28 date that the current manufacturers faced last year.

The Whiting note added: "As the existing manufacturers were obliged to homologate their power units by 28 February 2014 it would seem fair and equitable to ask a new manufacturer to homologate their power unit before February 28 2015.

"We therefore consider this to be a requirement for a new power unit manufacturer."

http://www.magnetimarelli.com/focus-on- ... e-upgrades

How could this be fair?

I had hope for this season after two years of frustration....
How exciting would the new season be if mercedes cars will finish the races half an hour ahead of everyone else?

[bauc]

NO DEVELOPMENT FREEDOM FOR HONDA

The interpretation that allows Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault to bring in developments over the course of 2015 will not apply to Honda because it is a new manufacturer.

Although the regulations do not specifically state dates for the Japanese car maker to submit its homologated unit, the FIA is standing by its view that it must stick to the February 28 date that the current manufacturers faced last year.

The Whiting note added: "As the existing manufacturers were obliged to homologate their power units by 28 February 2014 it would seem fair and equitable to ask a new manufacturer to homologate their power unit before February 28 2015.

"We therefore consider this to be a requirement for a new power unit manufacturer."

http://www.magnetimarelli.com/focus-on- ... e-upgrades

How could this be fair?

I had hope for this season after two years of frustration....
How exciting would the new season be if mercedes cars will finish the races half an hour ahead of everyone else?

So if they do this now and dont allow Honda to develop during the season, does this mean that Honda will be able do change and develop 32 tokens next year, while all others will have far less ?