Mercedes AMG F1 W06 Speculation

[kooleracer]

Imagine the millions of pounds and man-hours that could be diverted to other systems on the car if Mercedes re-used the W05 chassis? It is an interesting proposition...

This was the first year of the new formula. The other teams are going to be closer. The W05 was quick but the next years Red bull, Ferrari, Williams and maybe even McLaren ought to be as quick. Thats why Lowe said that aren't going to carry over much. The W06 will have to improve on cooling so the body work can be tighter. In F1 you have to improve other wise you will overtaken. All have the teams know have much more experience. I expect that the W06 could be 2sec or even more faster then the W05.

I'm sure we will some new aero concepts to tackle the new nose cone concept. The Red Bull nose seams to way to go. So expect Red Bull to be really on top of aero again in 2015. If they have a decent Renault engine 2015 should be much closer then 2014. Also McLaren with Peter joining them the will make a huge leap. Knowing Honda their engine should be ready to compete from race 1.

The W06 needs to be at least 1 sec quicker if the want to compete with likes of Ferrari,Red Bull and McLaren. If they are 2 seconds quicker then we will have a copy of 2014.

James Allison's first Ferrari.
Peter Prodromou's first McLaren.
Red Bull with a better engine.
Those three factors might close the field up more then people expect. I am for one not expecting a Mercedes domination in 2015.

[PlatinumZealot]

Ok I agree somewhat. The last part is a little questionable.

My take on it:

James Allison's Ferrari = 2016
Peter Produmu's Mclaren = 2016

Was widely reported that James Allison did not get to overrule Fry and Tombasis on the design of the 666. Marchionne said it was a "mistake" in use of resources (they started too late) and design and corrections will be made.

As for PP. He simply joined to late to influence the design of the new Mclaren from scratch. He will have an influence, but this car is Tim Goss's car again so expect the same Sort of philosophy to the body of the car if anything.

[Jolle]

With the limitations on wind tunnel and CFD time I presume no team has the possibility to develope a complete new concept. to copy a solution like the front wishbone like the Merc would take many hours of valuable time.

So I imagine that mcLaren would put extra time and flops into their 2016 car and use almost a MP4/29B spec for 2015.

Mercedes can use all their time and flops to further develope the W05 more and more, and keeping the advantage they have now (and even gaining more if other teams like Ferrari and/or McLaren) choose to start with new concepts.

[raymondu999]

Was widely reported that James Allison did not get to overrule Fry and Tombasis on the design of the 666

Really?

[GoranF1]

Ok I agree somewhat. The last part is a little questionable.

My take on it:

James Allison's Ferrari = 2016
Peter Produmu's Mclaren = 2016

Was widely reported that James Allison did not get to overrule Fry and Tombasis on the design of the 666. Marchionne said it was a "mistake" in use of resources (they started too late) and design and corrections will be made.

As for PP. He simply joined to late to influence the design of the new Mclaren from scratch. He will have an influence, but this car is Tim Goss's car again so expect the same Sort of philosophy to the body of the car if anything.

They designed the "redbull" front wing, and the intent to use it,in order for wing to work everything behind it needs to comply.
I think turningvanes,sidepods,bargebords,RW...will all be designed by PP and also like FW in the RB style.

[PlatinumZealot]

Ok I agree somewhat. The last part is a little questionable.

My take on it:

James Allison's Ferrari = 2016
Peter Produmu's Mclaren = 2016

Was widely reported that James Allison did not get to overrule Fry and Tombasis on the design of the 666. Marchionne said it was a "mistake" in use of resources (they started too late) and design and corrections will be made.

As for PP. He simply joined to late to influence the design of the new Mclaren from scratch. He will have an influence, but this car is Tim Goss's car again so expect the same Sort of philosophy to the body of the car if anything.

They designed the "redbull" front wing, and the intent to use it,in order for wing to work everything behind it needs to comply.
I think turningvanes,sidepods,bargebords,RW...will all be designed by PP and also like FW in the RB style.

He can't do that in such a short time though, not my personal opinion, but Just from past observations of how long it takes for an designer to have a real effect on the chassis from joining a F1 team it can be over a year and a half. Aldo costa to Mercedes, James Key to Torro Rosso, Pat Fry to Ferrari, Matt Marris to Mclaren, They all took more than a year to get their designs into the car. So don't expect the PP or JA mobiles till 2016 I would warn.

[Cocles]

When Vettel was finally announced to be joining Ferrari, it was mentioned in several articles (it may have been a quote from him) that we wouldn't be seeing the full effect of Ferrari's new hires, including JA, until 2016.

--And to get this back to Mercedes, based on the across the board reports of their substantially improved engine power, the W06 will likely be another monster.

[marcush.]

the question is: are these allison and prodouomo genuine idea producers ,inventors and guys who really see the flow or are they talented managers of a bunch of brilliant but chaotic pet project nursing designers ?

I think this is what people like Newey ,Barnard ,Murray ,Forghieri really made different -They had those original ideas and kicked everyone out of the room who tried to destroy their concept.

Working with Newey might be interesting but it is easy to be inventive knowing that your boss has the capacity to bring you back on solid ground if needed.

[Blanchimont]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.ph ... 1421166769

Illustration by scarbs, it looks similar to the Marussia wind tunnel model. May i ask, if this is one of the three noses you know ( http://youtu.be/TVs7W2LvBuI?t=4m49s ), scarbs? What other odd shapes are possible?

[arahman_93]

How hard is it for the FIA to come up and get the teams to have good looking and sensible nose.
The past two season 2013 and 2014 merc hard arguably the best two looking noses .
How hard is it to just get the teams to make noses like the mp4-27, it safe and low and looks good.

[scarbs]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.ph ... 1421166769

Illustration by scarbs, it looks similar to the Marussia wind tunnel model. May i ask, if this is one of the three noses you know ( http://youtu.be/TVs7W2LvBuI?t=4m49s ), scarbs? What other odd shapes are possible?

http://cdn.images.autosport.com/editori ... 150112.jpg

You can go long or you can go short, then the tips can be wide/flat or narrow/deep. This gives four basic shapes but I doubt a short narrow nose would be useful.

The merc info I have suggested it was long flat nose. Lotus tested the short flat nose. It seems from a tip off today that this was an early concept and Merc now have another design prepared for the W06. It's not clear which will be used in testing.

I know of one other long nose design and one long/narrow nose, as well as the marussia nose

[tranquility2k4]

To those who say RB is better aerodynamically than Merc, read this article: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/117352

In particular, FI technical director Andy Green states:

"When I look at the lap time deltas that we have to Mercedes and I look at some of their speeds through the high-speed corners, that's pure aerodynamics," he said.

"They've got some significant advantages over us in pure aerodynamics. So yes, there's still a lot to be had in aero.

"Even comparing it to the teams that traditionally had good aerodynamics, like Red Bull, Mercedes are still significantly quicker. We've got a lot to learn from them.

"Not only have they done a good job with the power unit, they've done a very, very good job aerodynamically."

[diego1960]

How hard is it for the FIA to come up and get the teams to have good looking and sensible nose.
The past two season 2013 and 2014 merc hard arguably the best two looking noses .
How hard is it to just get the teams to make noses like the mp4-27, it safe and low and looks good.
http://scarbsf1.files.wordpress.com/201 ... t203-4.jpg

Ι believe their problem in "introducing and enforcing" rules that make cars "look good" comes from poor phrasing as well as loopholes found in them.

Still, we should wait and see the noses of 2015 before we jump to conclusions.

As for Merc, I seriously hope that they have pushed hard in developing the best possible car, not being reassured of their lead in the previous season. Who knows how better our rivals will show up? Obviously I would trade a good looking car that is slow for an ugly one that will continue to break records.

[Blanchimont]

Thanks for your comment, scarbs. I'm happy that no extreme solutions are known up to date!

A small tweak to the regs(pm me FIA ) and the noses are finally back to normal!

[astracrazy]

As for Merc, I seriously hope that they have pushed hard in developing the best possible car, not being reassured of their lead in the previous season.

Not in a million years, especially with Niki there

a side note: I knew the guy was determined from his incident in F1 but i just watched air crash investigation about the crash with his airline. Going by how the program portrayed it, he drove the investigation to find an outcome for the crash and ensured there was a result (flying out to the crash scene, to Boeing, carrying out simulations himself etc.).

So there is no way merc will ever take there foot off the gas with him around. He seems a very very determined and driven individual.