2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

[godlameroso]

But if your system isn't designed to take advantage of MGU-H -> MGU-K then no matter what you do, you'll be at a disadvantage because you're locked into your P.U. and ancillaries for the year.

[trinidefender]

But if your system isn't designed to take advantage of MGU-H -> MGU-K then no matter what you do, you'll be at a disadvantage because you're locked into your P.U. and ancillaries for the year.

Yes I understand that. My point is simply that it seems so obvious to me so I don't understand why the engineers wouldn't have implemented it before the season started. I was also asking for his source as to how he knows the Ferrari PU doesn't have that capability.

[Pierce89]

But if your system isn't designed to take advantage of MGU-H -> MGU-K then no matter what you do, you'll be at a disadvantage because you're locked into your P.U. and ancillaries for the year.

Yes I understand that. My point is simply that it seems so obvious to me so I don't understand why the engineers wouldn't have implemented it before the season started. I was also asking for his source as to how he knows the Ferrari PU doesn't have that capability.

I agree with Trini. Every member on this forum knew it, but none of Ferrari's engineers? That's a little far fetched. It's far more likely the Ferrari just did a poor job of this rather than completely left it out.

[PlatinumZealot]

Mgu-h goes trough mgu-k. Your point?

Battery power to mguk is regulated at 160 hp max. Mguh to mguk is not regulated. So there is no limit on the power you can transfer from turbo to the crankshaft via the mguk. It is pretty much turbo compunding except an electrical drivetrain replacing the mechanical drivetrain.

So if the 900 hp is the power to the flywheel we can assum that it is equal to battery kers + mguh kers + piston engine.

900hp = 160hp + (~140hp + ~600hp). Give or take.

This proposal make the most sense to me. Ferrari were weak on the mguh. So they had to sacrifice power over a lap to charge their battery. And during. Qualifying when they needed maximum power they could not charge their battery enough for a consequtive flying lap.

OK... responding to my own post here... I made a mistake with interpreting the regs... No more than 160hp can come from the mguk no matter if its from the battery or the mguh. so there. the 740hp ICE figure seems very dubious now.

[godlameroso]

But if your system isn't designed to take advantage of MGU-H -> MGU-K then no matter what you do, you'll be at a disadvantage because you're locked into your P.U. and ancillaries for the year.

Yes I understand that. My point is simply that it seems so obvious to me so I don't understand why the engineers wouldn't have implemented it before the season started. I was also asking for his source as to how he knows the Ferrari PU doesn't have that capability.

I agree with Trini. Every member on this forum knew it, but none of Ferrari's engineers? That's a little far fetched. It's far more likely the Ferrari just did a poor job of this rather than completely left it out.

According to Ferrari themselves, they sacrificed on the P.U. specifically to develop aero, they made a mistake in underestimating the importance of the MGU-H -> MGU-K

[Cold Fussion]

According to Ferrari themselves, they sacrificed on the P.U. specifically to develop aero, they made a mistake in underestimating the importance of the MGU-H -> MGU-K

That still doesn't make any sense, because the routing is going to have next to zero impact of an aerodynamics.

[trinidefender]

According to Ferrari themselves, they sacrificed on the P.U. specifically to develop aero, they made a mistake in underestimating the importance of the MGU-H -> MGU-K

Ferrari stated that in design of the PU they may have compromised in some areas to make the PU package smaller for better aerodynamics. Nowhere did they state that they can't send power directly from the MGU-H to the MGU-K. Please don't spread rumours.

[PlatinumZealot]

It's kinda crazy. The number of people who keep coming out saying that the engines are around the 900 Hp range, or around the 40% range for the ICE... These are the numbers that keep getting repeated again and again by all kinds of F1 engineers. Yet so many of the forum's members keep trying to assert "no, they're only 550/700hp because I don't believe them".

I don't believe them is not a reason it's wrong.

No f1 engineer as far as i have read has come out with a 900hp figure, Moose. The closest official figure we have is from Renault who released and info-graphic saying the engine is around 600hp.

[gruntguru]

It's kinda crazy. The number of people who keep coming out saying that the engines are around the 900 Hp range, or around the 40% range for the ICE... These are the numbers that keep getting repeated again and again by all kinds of F1 engineers. Yet so many of the forum's members keep trying to assert "no, they're only 550/700hp because I don't believe them".

I don't believe them is not a reason it's wrong.

No f1 engineer as far as i have read has come out with a 900hp figure, Moose. The closest official figure we have is from Renault who released and info-graphic saying the engine is around 600hp.

- 600 hp was a very early figure - published before the start of 2014 season. Renault may even have "lowballed" this number.
- It was for crankshaft only.
- It was only Renault (not Mercedes Benz)

The self-sustaining (continuous) power rating will include extra power generated by the MGUH. This could be as much as 100 hp.

The "almost 900 hp" figure would definitely include 160 hp from the MGUK so perhaps 720 from the crankshaft for a total of 880. This could possibly be an "emergency power" mode where the battery is drained at 160 hp to the MGUK and say 100 hp to the MGUH to drive the supercharger, allowing the wastegate to be wide open for zero exhaust BP. This could reduce pumping MEP by 1.5 - 2 bar - with a corresponding increase in BMEP - about 5% power increase.

[chip engineer]

...
The "almost 900 hp" figure would definitely include 160 hp from the MGUK so perhaps 720 from the crankshaft for a total of 880. This could possibly be an "emergency power" mode where the battery is drained at 160 hp to the MGUK and say 100 hp to the MGUH to drive the supercharger, allowing the wastegate to be wide open for zero exhaust BP. This could reduce pumping MEP by 1.5 - 2 bar - with a corresponding increase in BMEP - about 5% power increase.

Maybe that is the reason the extra weight of a wastegate is tolerated. Otherwise it would seem the electronics could be sophisticated enough to make a wastegate unnecessary.

[godlameroso]

According to Ferrari themselves, they sacrificed on the P.U. specifically to develop aero, they made a mistake in underestimating the importance of the MGU-H -> MGU-K

Ferrari stated that in design of the PU they may have compromised in some areas to make the PU package smaller for better aerodynamics. Nowhere did they state that they can't send power directly from the MGU-H to the MGU-K. Please don't spread rumours.

I never said they couldn't, I'm merely speculating that they underestimated the importance of it amongst other things.

[dren]

It's kinda crazy. The number of people who keep coming out saying that the engines are around the 900 Hp range, or around the 40% range for the ICE... These are the numbers that keep getting repeated again and again by all kinds of F1 engineers. Yet so many of the forum's members keep trying to assert "no, they're only 550/700hp because I don't believe them".

I don't believe them is not a reason it's wrong.

No f1 engineer as far as i have read has come out with a 900hp figure, Moose. The closest official figure we have is from Renault who released and info-graphic saying the engine is around 600hp.

- 600 hp was a very early figure - published before the start of 2014 season. Renault may even have "lowballed" this number.
- It was for crankshaft only.
- It was only Renault (not Mercedes Benz)

The self-sustaining (continuous) power rating will include extra power generated by the MGUH. This could be as much as 100 hp.

The "almost 900 hp" figure would definitely include 160 hp from the MGUK so perhaps 720 from the crankshaft for a total of 880. This could possibly be an "emergency power" mode where the battery is drained at 160 hp to the MGUK and say 100 hp to the MGUH to drive the supercharger, allowing the wastegate to be wide open for zero exhaust BP. This could reduce pumping MEP by 1.5 - 2 bar - with a corresponding increase in BMEP - about 5% power increase.

Interesting. While your ES to MGUH is unlimited, you are limited by the max change in energy in your ES to 4MJ over one lap. It isn't max used, it's max change in charge. So you can add whatever you are able to recover over the lap through the MGUK to that 4MJ. A max but unlikely limit of 6MJ for 194KW is 31s of WOT assuming you are using all of the power you estimate (160+100 for the compressor) during WOT.

I don't think this mode would be sustainable for an entire lap, but for straights I'd think so.

I wonder if you could just switch to this mode down a straight for a brief peak power increase.

[triart3d]

Need help..



Isn't gasoline a fluid?

all (and only) the fluids entering the compressor inlet must exit from the engine exhaust system

[Blanchimont]

There's no petrol entering the compressor, at least i hope so. The compressor only compresses ambient air and feeds it into the combustion chamber where then the petrol is added. After the combustion the exhaust gases leave the engine through the turbine and the exhaust pipe.

[Paul]

I think the point is that regulations forbid injecting fuel into the cylinder. =D>