2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Blanchimont
Blanchimont
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Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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triart3d wrote:
Paul wrote:I think the point is that regulations forbid injecting fuel into the cylinder. =D>
I think the same:

Code: Select all

5.8 Exhaust systems :
5.8.1
With the exception of incidental leakage through joints (either into or out of the system), all (and only) the fluids entering the compressor inlet must exit from the engine exhaust system.

"ONLY the fluids entering the compressor inlet must exit from the engine exhaust system"


must add fuel to air BEFORE compresor

And can't use a injector..
"5.10.2 There may only be one direct injector per cylinder and no injectors are permitted upstream of
the intake valves or downstream of the exhaust valves.
Only approved parts may be used and
the list of parts approved by the FIA, and the approval procedure, may be found in the
Appendix to the Technical Regulations. "
The only possible area to add the fuel is between the intake valves and the exhaust valves-> direct injection.
Dear FIA, if you read this, please pm me for a redesign of the Technical Regulations to avoid finger nose shapes for 2016! :-)

Blanchimont
Blanchimont
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Blackout wrote:AFAIR, two or three manufacturers + the FIA said in the beginning of the season that 750bhp is a realistic number (so 590/600 for the ICE)
Lauda said 580hp....
That would be my safest bet, too. I imagine that the engine working group tried to create a turbo engine that is similar to the the V8 in terms of peak power output(max 780hp).
Dear FIA, if you read this, please pm me for a redesign of the Technical Regulations to avoid finger nose shapes for 2016! :-)

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dren
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Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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wuzak wrote:
dren wrote:Interesting. While your ES to MGUH is unlimited, you are limited by the max change in energy in your ES to 4MJ over one lap. It isn't max used, it's max change in charge. So you can add whatever you are able to recover over the lap through the MGUK to that 4MJ. A max but unlikely limit of 6MJ for 194KW is 31s of WOT assuming you are using all of the power you estimate (160+100 for the compressor) during WOT.

I don't think this mode would be sustainable for an entire lap, but for straights I'd think so.

I wonder if you could just switch to this mode down a straight for a brief peak power increase.
The restrictions are 4MJ from ES to MGUK per lap, and a difference between maximum and minimum charge in the ES of 4MJ.

This means that only 4MJ can be stored at any one time. But energy will be flowing in and out constantly, so this shouldn't be too big a restriction.

The amount of electrical energy used could be >6 MJ per lap, if the systems are sufficiently capable. That would mean that the full 2MJ is stored from braking energy(why the cars "lift and coast" now) with the rest coming from the MGUH.

It is unlikely, however, unless a driver chooses to not use his 2MJ braking charge on one lap so he can fully charge the ES for the next.
Right; I was thinking in terms of driving the MGUH by the ES for the whole lap initially (qualification), so you'd be restricted to a max of 6MJ.
Honda!

rjsa
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Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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Am I the only one seeing the wrong wording here? Who will dump exhaust fumes into the compressor? Turbine, yes, but compressor???

Tommy Cookers
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Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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isn't this the rule that eg prohibits fuel being injected or heat otherwise added just upstream of the turbine ?
otherwise there might be some odd engines potentially regardable as bypassing the 1600 cc capacity limit
ie no part of the supercharger aka compressor output can bypass the cylinders

rjsa
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Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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But anyway, who dumps actual exhaust fumes, hot and with low O2 content from previous revolutions' burn, into the intake air stream in a turbocharged otto ice?

gruntguru
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rjsa wrote:But anyway, who dumps actual exhaust fumes, hot and with low O2 content from previous revolutions' burn, into the intake air stream in a turbocharged otto ice?
Road car with EGR? :)
je suis charlie

rjsa
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Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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gruntguru wrote:
rjsa wrote:But anyway, who dumps actual exhaust fumes, hot and with low O2 content from previous revolutions' burn, into the intake air stream in a turbocharged otto ice?
Road car with EGR? :)
And are EGR's used in F1 now?

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Mesteño
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I found this article in a technical blog of F1. It is google-translated from Italian, apologies.
Is Hydrogen the secret of Mercedes?

Friday, January 16, 2015

And 'news these days, which, according to rumors the new Power Unit Mercedes would degrees providing a power greater than 50 hp compared to the one used in the last season.

The immediate question that arise are, "where does this power?" "How can she have a power increase of the genre with all the limitations that the technical regulations demand especially in the fuel consumption?"

Publish with great pleasure that we received a letter from a reader, Rosario Zorzi, who was able to give a plausible explanation, as well as scientific.

Here is the letter:

I was impressed by the many rumors about the developments of the Power Unit Mercedes for 2015. In particular, what struck me most is that the German company will rely on additional 50-70 hp for the same fuel load than the Power Unit in 2014. It seems to me a huge amount. Just as it seems to me a contradiction the news about the need for greater heat dissipation of the power unit of next year. Let me explain.

With the same fuel as you can simultaneously increase the power and the heat produced? Only a drastic improvement of combustion, recovering unburned hydrocarbons otherwise, could afford this. But we are talking about an improvement of 7-8% on the power supplied by the internal combustion engine (ICE) of 2014.

There is this margin improvement from conventional combustion? All this improvement in one evolutionary step? I was expecting a Power Unit Mercedes yes more evolved, but also closer to the limit of plafonamento, In percentage terms, I expected in perspective a rapprochement between motorists competitors, however it seems that it will not.

Moreover it seems that (SOURCE Sportbild), the three-pointed star, it would be determined to open the dialogue, saying he was ready to provide its own hybrid system, complete with all the ERS. Evidently it considers its hybrid system which most responsible for the extraordinary superiority demonstrated in 2014 and therefore strategic for the future.


There is something not quite right. At this point we need to understand better, a likely big secret that lies within the combustion chambers of the Power Unit Mercedes. I'm tempted to embrace outright the thesis Eng. Benzing about flowmeter rigged through the manipulation of the density parameter, but then I think: "It 's too easy!"

It would only be a political battle with no technical content from "fight" between the FIA and technocrats "powerful" of the various teams. And all the nervousness of Ecclestone? Would not have him in the hand control to allow more or less fuel to this or that team making the championship uncertain until the end? If it were really so Ferrari and Renault would have a deadly weapon to wield in discussion groups of motorists rather than trying to impose the free development. In contrast would make no sense to say that the Power Unit Renault and Ferrari are inadequate compared to the irrepressible power and efficiency of PU German. Why remove Marmorini by the Directorate Motors Ferrari or call Abiteboul and Mario Illien at Renault if there was the belief of inferiority technique?

Moreover, the calculations are clear; to deliver the installed capacity calculated PU Mercedes should consume more. However, this coincides with the possibility of heat engine Mercedes spinning at 13,000 rpm compared to 12,000 of the competition without blaming excessive consumption.

But I think there's more! There must be some parameter which until now has not yet been taken into account. I thought and thought about reading and rereading the technical regulations and ..... I think I have found a hole in the current regulatory Regulation of Formula 1 that could be used to significantly enhance the current Power Unit.

As you can bypass the rules or, as we say today, as can be interpreted in a more "creative"?


In particular, Article 5.14.2 of the technical regulation states:

5.14.2 Other than engine sump breather gases, exhaust gas recirculation, and fuel for the normal purpose of combustion in the engine, the spraying of any substance into the engine intake air is forbidden.

So you can not spray the engine with an additive of foreign substances such as water, peroxide etc .. but, any substances from "engine sump breather gases" would be considered regular. Ok, but what substances and how you can find in the crankcase / oil tank? Well, if there is a small universe is not touched by the claws regulations that it is the field of lubrication. The Regulations, contrary to the fuel, standardized by international rules specified, do not include any article about the composition of the liquid lubricants.

Now, the idea (not necessarily the truth!) Is this:

Hypothesis of additive hydrogen for PU F1

In the early seventies the Jet Propulsion Laboratory of NASA published a series of articles on the benefits of the addition of hydrogen in the combustion of hydrocarbons in conventional heat engines. E ', in my opinion, can realize a lubricant containing molecules that, in the heat engine suitably equipped with a catalyst, through a catalytic reforming process, releases hydrogen. Note that the process of catalytic reforming is highly endothermic, and then, if used, would absorb heat within the heat engine to help the overall cooling.

I asked the engineer. Benzing, to confirm some of my ideas, a graphic summary of the "installed capacity" respectively Mercedes, Williams, Force India and McLaren during the championship. It looks a bit: surprise. The motors mercedes Petronas, always lubricated by Malay house, appear to be better performing Germans lubricated Mobil (It fuel) for the same hybrid system.

It will be a case?

A cold engine hydrogen would be stored in a stable manner in the lubricant or nell'idruro metal or carbon structure; the engine is hot, vice versa, the hydrogen would be released and would flow from the crankcase to the aforementioned "engine sump breather gases". From this, the compressor would continue following the path laid down in Regulation.

The appropriate dosage of the hydrogen produced, would be achieved through an appropriate solenoid valve as the Moog servo valve or nozzle-flapper (zip) input to the compressor. Note that in this configuration the separation of the compressor from the turbine will make it nearly necessary in order to minimize the risk of self-ignition of hydrogen.
This additive (having regard to the contained amount of hydrogen necessary compared to the volume of fuel) would improve the combustion virtually eliminating unburnt hydrocarbons, and virtually increase the octane number of the fuel. So the Mercedes (as well as the Williams) could make use of mixtures leaner, may increase the speed of flame propagation and the boost pressure while minimizing the risks of detonations catastrophic for the thermal unit from which lower fuel consumption and, moreover, would have greater power available with the same fuel load (and, perhaps, even more heat to be dissipated seen the use of lean mixtures).

In a nutshell: better overall efficiency of the unit coupled to thermal German Malaysian lubricants.

Note that Mercedes has largely of know-how necessary (also has patents related to these solutions):

"Mercedes-Benz Has AWARDED ITS fourth BlueEFFICIENCY award to HyGear for ITS small-scale natural-gas-fed hydrogen generation system. The BlueEFFICIENCY award credits innovations in sustainable mobility. HyGear's system Creates hydrogen vehicle fuel via the steam reformation of natural gas from the grid on site and on demand in a downscaled version of the industrial process That Creates most of the world's hydrogen at present. HyGear claims ITS downscaled That process does not incur a loss in efficiency. "(source fuelcelltoday.com June 2013)


Consider that the German started the research and trials required in the field of storage, and use of hydrogen reforming on its heat engines for road cars around the beginning of the last decade.

And 'this is the real or most important secret of the Power Unit F1 currently more efficient and handsome?
http://www.f1analisitecnica.com/2015/01 ... cedes.html

gruntguru
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Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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Fantasy.
je suis charlie

ncassi22
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Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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Didn't someone mention D-EGR a while back? I think that is both cooled EGR and hydrogen reformation. Developed by swri, before that IAV, before that MIT. It reforms some fuel and mixes it back in with cooled egr. Don't know if the rules allow though.

Moose
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Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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It's a lovely idea, but until someone provides some evidence of it, I don't buy a word of it.

gruntguru
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ncassi22 wrote:Didn't someone mention D-EGR a while back? I think that is both cooled EGR and hydrogen reformation. Developed by swri, before that IAV, before that MIT. It reforms some fuel and mixes it back in with cooled egr. Don't know if the rules allow though.
Yes. The process is energy neutral though - the energy released by burning the hydrogen was used in the formation process.
je suis charlie

ncassi22
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Joined: 27 Apr 2013, 02:26

Re: Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

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gruntguru wrote:
ncassi22 wrote:Didn't someone mention D-EGR a while back? I think that is both cooled EGR and hydrogen reformation. Developed by swri, before that IAV, before that MIT. It reforms some fuel and mixes it back in with cooled egr. Don't know if the rules allow though.
Yes. The process is energy neutral though - the energy released by burning the hydrogen was used in the formation process.
ArvinMeritor and MIT were working on a plasmatron which would use electrically generated plasma instead of combustion to reform fuel. I'd think that would make it better? ...Reaching... Not an engineer but it would be interesting to know what you think.

http://www.psfc.mit.edu/library1/catalo ... 3_full.pdf

Tommy Cookers
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traditional methods are also useable ......
2 years ago I pointed out that the rules limit fuel consumption to 100.000 kg, but do not limit lubricant burn in cylinder etc
and they limit eg lead content in fuel but not in lubricant in cylinder (and TEL isn't the only organometallic octane-booster)
legitimate fuel constituents eg Triptane are about 10x more responsive (than common constituents) to such octane-boosters
Last edited by Tommy Cookers on 17 Jan 2015, 13:28, edited 1 time in total.