Ferrari SF15-T Pre-Launch Speculation Thread

[aleks_ader]

Yes it's absolutely identical to the F14T

And if change is not visible is that bad thing. Common guys! Ferrari had a lot more important issues to sort out first. Its no guarantee that the changing of front pullrod, will work for them a the movement.

[zioture]

Other pics SF15-T





Comparison Chassis SF15-T VS F14T

[PlatinumZealot]

Oh God. It's an upgraded F14T... just as feared. Kimi, Sebastian... Coconut water is good for your heart. I suggest you buy a few cases of it for this season.

[trinidefender]

I would laugh if all the images in this video actually show the F-14T and the SF15-T is hugely different.

I also find it funny that people who have no actual knowledge about the Ferrari nose and it's aerodynamics suddenly think it was awful. Please, people with CFD eyes, give me the downforce, drag, mass flow, pressure gradients and turbulence numbers that you see, oh wait.....look at it this way, if the nose was a problem then don't you think at some point last season, probably during an in season test or even end of season test, they would have tried a different nose? Of course not because ya know, that makes sense.

To me at least, ferrari clearly had bigger problems than their nose and front pullrod suspension.

[McMrocks]

May i ask those who are disappointed what you have expected?

All we've seen is the tube, the airbox and parts of the suspension. The tube is regulated as hell, the airbox "makes no difference" and the pull-rod might be working. If the pull-rod was the root of all problems at Ferrari they'd drop it. There are highly-educated people working on the car in Maranello. They know it better

[poolboy67]

the reason why people talk about the pull rod being the wrong way to go, is because push rod is concidered an easier system to set up to the drivers liking. pull rod's benefit is lower center of gravity.

why would it be better for ferrari to go with the push rod? because they now have two drivers that are very sensitive about the front end of the car. kimi in particular has to have the front end of the car just right in order for him to get the max out of the car. so it would make sense to make the front end easier to adjust. also i think the benefit of having the lower center of gravity is marginal, and completely inferior to having an easier system to set up.

i don't think the SF15-T will have push rod on it because of reasons i've stated before (staff changes and so on=chaos ect.)
as it's name already suggests to me, the SF15-T is going to be an evolution of the last year's car. so no big changes this year most likely, besides the engine. like i've said before, this year's car was designed by a mishmash of engineers. next year's car will be designed by Allison and that's when i think were gonna see the big changes and such. i just hope kimi stays on for 2017 season, just so i could see him in a car that's truly designed for him again.

[Intego]

Plus: I don't know when exactly Ferrari definitely had known that Alonso would quit the team, but imho the basics of the SF15-T were designed to suit him more. What can be fundamentally changed for a #2-driver (sorry) and a last-minute-passenger amidst an advanced development?
So maybe just another year to learn things ...

[poolboy67]

Plus: I don't know when exactly Ferrari definitely had known that Alonso would quit the team, but imho the basics of the SF15-T were designed to suit him more. What can be fundamentally changed for a #2-driver (sorry) and a last-minute-passenger amidst an advanced development?
So maybe just another year to learn things ...

yes and to try out stuff for next year.

with the way things went last year in terms of staff changes and alonso leaving the team (which i honestly think was a good thing) my fear is that the car will perform poorly.

it's just like lotus' last year. lots of people left lotus, as did the money, as did raikkonen. and the car was a horrible mess!
granted those people who left lotus were not replaced by better people per se, but that doesn't meant that the people who were signed for ferrari have had enough time to make a big enough difference to this year's car. i mean the changes were still going on as late as december!

what i hope for ferrari this season, is that they establish the grounds for the 2016 car. in terms of how it suits the drivers and the power unit and maybe some aero and mechanical bits. i hope they place their goals for the 2016 car. i think i've read Allison saying that that's what they'll basicly do.

[Xwang]

What kind of modifications can be done during the year? Is it possible to create a different chassis to use a push-rod front suspension instead of the pull rod if they wish?

[fawe4]

Franky if they do go with high cockpit again, I would be extremely surprised, and also somewhat disappointed. They were pretty much the last team that stuck with it following previous seasons rule changes, and even then, only cause may have been in retaining familiarity with existing pull-rod arrangement. Even RB, as champions, decided to go with different geometry. Now seeing their rivals going for the low noses and low cockpit structures, seeing them win, and themselves struggling hard on every turn, I really don't see any reason in retaining the same arrangement they had. After all we have to remember that this is now almost three year old system running back to F2012, and at that time designed for those tall gaping noses. Furthermore, seeing how low the competition is going in early releases of cars this year, one can only speculate that no one sees anything in high cockpit/suspension combo. The norm appears to be low nose, and neatly arranged suspension arms as featured on last years merc.

Pull-rods are a different story. Lower the nose/cockpit, lower the suspension arms and it may work. I'm just hoping we won't be seeing them in the same position as last year, that may may only mean throwing in a towel.

[Intego]

What kind of modifications can be done during the year? Is it possible to create a different chassis to use a push-rod front suspension instead of the pull rod if they wish?

AFAIK the chassis can be changed and homologated again the whole year (new rule since 2014).


@poolboy67
Right, according to Auto Motor und Sport this year is not for the title:

Ferrari kauft sich zuerst einmal Zeit. Marchionne warnte die Tifosi: "Wir mussten Entscheidungen des alten Managements korrigieren. Der Entwicklungsfahrplan wurde neu ausgerichtet. Deshalb starten wir mit Verspätung in die Saison." Er meint damit den Motor. Die Produktion der neuen Turbolader soll im Rückstand sein. Ferrari braucht größere Lader, auch um mehr Energie aus der MGU-H zu ziehen.

Marchionne verweist auf das Beispiel Mercedes: "Dort hat es auch zwei Jahre gedauert, bis sie erfolgreich waren." Das ist eine blauäugige Einschätzung. Das Unternehmen Weltmeisterschaft begann bei Mercedes schon 2010. Niki Lauda glaubt: "Auch Ferrari braucht vier Jahre."

Ferrari buys first time once. Marchionne warned the Tifosi: "We had to revise decisions of the old management The development schedule was realigned why we start late in the season..." He means the engine. Production of the new turbocharger should be in arrears. Ferrari need bigger loader to pull even more power from the MGU-H.

Marchionne points to the example of Mercedes: "There has also taken two years until they were successful." This is a blue-eyed assessment. The company World Championship began at Mercedes already 2010. Niki Lauda believes: "Even Ferrari takes four years."

[PlatinumZealot]

Franky if they do go with high cockpit again, I would be extremely surprised, and also somewhat disappointed. They were pretty much the last team that stuck with it following previous seasons rule changes, and even then, only cause may have been in retaining familiarity with existing pull-rod arrangement. Even RB, as champions, decided to go with different geometry. Now seeing their rivals going for the low noses and low cockpit structures, seeing them win, and themselves struggling hard on every turn, I really don't see any reason in retaining the same arrangement they had. After all we have to remember that this is now almost three year old system running back to F2012, and at that time designed for those tall gaping noses. Furthermore, seeing how low the competition is going in early releases of cars this year, one can only speculate that no one sees anything in high cockpit/suspension combo. The norm appears to be low nose, and neatly arranged suspension arms as featured on last years merc.

Pull-rods are a different story. Lower the nose/cockpit, lower the suspension arms and it may work. I'm just hoping we won't be seeing them in the same position as last year, that may may only mean throwing in a towel.

Yeah the cockpit is high again this year. I find it a bit of a surprise that it has almost the exact same shape as the f14t chassis. The roll hop is a bit different looking but the cockpit, bulkhead and the flanks look so similar.

[trinidefender]

[quote="poolboy67"]the reason why people talk about the pull rod being the wrong way to go, is because push rod is concidered an easier system to set up to the drivers liking. pull rod's benefit is lower center of gravity.

why would it be better for ferrari to go with the push rod? because they now have two drivers that are very sensitive about the front end of the car. kimi in particular has to have the front end of the car just right in order for him to get the max out of the car. so it would make sense to make the front end easier to adjust. also i think the benefit of having the lower center of gravity is marginal, and completely inferior to having an easier system to set up.

i don't think the SF15-T will have push rod on it because of reasons i've stated before (staff changes and so on=chaos ect.)
as it's name already suggests to me, the SF15-T is going to be an evolution of the last year's car. so no big changes this year most likely, besides the engine. like i've said before, this year's car was designed by a mishmash of engineers. next year's car will be designed by Allison and that's when i think were gonna see the big changes and such. i just hope kimi stays on for 2017 season, just so i could see him in a car that's truly designed for him again. [/quote]

The primary reason for going pullrod (on the front) is actually aerodynamics. The lower centre of gravity is there but is a lesser point. The pullrod or pushrod has an effect on the airflow going around the side of the nose. A pull/push rod at a high angle compared to the suspension arms has larger problems aerodynamically than one at a lower angle compared to the other suspension arms.

1. Interference drag. Interference drag is where airflows from two different surfaces try to occupy the same space. A great example is at the wing root on planes. The section where the wing meets the fuselage is a high drag point as you have coinciding airflows meeting together. That is why on aircraft you see that section has a large radius curve to join the horizontal and vertical surfaces. With the suspension arms you have various flows from each arm interacting with airflows from the push/pull rod arm. This creates drag and more importantly (detrimentally) turbulence in the airflow. The turbulent flow then has to travel down the car and has a greater effect further back.

2. The turbulence, as stated at the end of point (1) is made worse because of each arm doing something different to the airflow. If each arm, including the pull/push rod is in the same plane then this effect is not as large.

3. The pullrod arm itself can be made slightly slimmer and lighter than a pushrod, assuming the same angle from the vertical is used (off of 0/180 degrees). Carbon fibre is much better in tension than compression, hence a pullrod can take more load for the same size. This can allow designers to place the pullrod at a flatter angle to the horizontal while being about the same thickness as a pushrod at a quite steep angle (maybe the suspension guys can give a good explanation as to exactly why flatter suspension push/pull rod angles increase loads, I'm currently to tired)

As a rule of thumb, pullrods generally have a lower centre of gravity with an easier time for aerodynamicists. The problem comes with greater loads on the suspension and chassis requiring more carbon needed to keep everything stiff and, through my understanding, harder to set up. Although this might just be because teams have gotten used to pushrods over the years.

Pushrods generally are a known quantity and teams know how to build them. As such they take up less resources to design and engineers can then focus greater time and effort onto other parts of the car. The chassis and internal suspension loads are generally lower as a result of the steeper, to the vertical, angle of a pushrod on current cars. One last major advantage, having the pushrod setup means that all the adjustments for the suspension will be on the top of the front of the tub compared to underneath it as in the case of a pullrod. This means that teams can make setup changes much easier and quicker.

*note* I'm tired and tied up for time so this was written in a hurry. I'll try to revise it at some point.

[PlatinumZealot]

Despite people hating the front pull rod, the most dominant car in F1 history was a front pull rod.

[wuzak]

Despite people hating the front pull rod, the most dominant car in F1 history was a front pull rod.

Quite true:

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/u ... 4_1988.jpg