2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

[Tommy Cookers]

The discussion was size of the MGUH which is less than 120 kW and runs at 100,000+ rpm so has less than 1/10 of the torque of a direct drive MGUK.

isn't the MGU-K commoned with the crankshaft via gearing ?
the ratio of which is unspecified by rule but might well be about 3, so the MGU-K would run at perhaps 30000 rpm

the 95% assumed efficiency rule at the sensing point being in part justified by consideration of the losses in the gearing
a really efficient MGU-K will legally deliver slightly over 120 kW

[mrluke]

Wow so in a year we have gone from 700bhp would break the laws of physics to Renault announcing 850bhp and still expecting to have less power than Mercedes.

[Juzh]

. . . "up to 850 bhp". . . .

So 850 would be the "balls out" emergency combat rating. Sounds about right - somewhere in the vicinity of Mercedes 2014.

Renault said they were 60bhp down at the end of last year. Common calculations around here converged on around ~810 bhp for 2014 merc. Renault's aim was to half the power deficit for 2015. If renault is pumping out 850, then merc will have something in the region of 880?
So by that logic renault have upped the power by 100 bhp in a single year? Is that something to be believed?

[Moose]

Wow so in a year we have gone from 700bhp would break the laws of physics to Renault announcing 850bhp and still expecting to have less power than Mercedes.

To be fair, the people proclaiming that 700hp would break the laws of physics are mostly just people with an interest in the current F1 engines being declared ---. The informed press, and actual F1 teams have always hinted that the current PU generation provides somewhere between 800 and 900 horses at full pelt.

Renault said they were 60bhp down at the end of last year. Common calculations around here converged on around ~810 bhp for 2014 merc. Renault's aim was to half the power deficit for 2015. If renault is pumping out 850, then merc will have something in the region of 880?
So by that logic renault have upped the power by 100 bhp in a single year? Is that something to be believed?

I'm not sure how you're calculating 100bhp there. As far as I'm concerned It's likely that renault went from 790 to 850hp, and Merc are going from 850 to 890hp. The "common consensus" on the amount of power the Merc developed was based purely on speculation about how much power it would be possible to produce assuming a very low estimate of the energy density of petrol.

[Juzh]

The "common consensus" on the amount of power the Merc developed was based purely on speculation about how much power it would be possible to produce assuming a very low estimate of the energy density of petrol.

Which is up to debate on both ends. Some people went conservative, some aggressive.

This article says 820 PS, so about 810 bhp.
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 63888.html

[PlatinumZealot]

The units are not smaller. they are about the same size if not a slightly larger diameter. You can literally see them in the engine photos.

Ferrari Mgu-k beside the engine:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByPLKnhCIAAjKLs.jpg

How do you explain this Mr. Facts man?

You are telling me that a current 160bho MGUK is 'about the same size' as an old 80bhp V8 KERS motor and then asking me to explain why it not smaller? Umm because it's twice the power. You do see this right?

Why are you so defensive?

I was only making it clear to the general public that the 2014 MGU-K is not smaller than before. (I have enough experience with regular motors to know the high rpm motors are smaller than the low rpm ones for the same horsepower). Then I asked you simple question...

I only wanted an explanation why the 2014 KERS is not smaller. since you design the things I wanted to know how much the size per horsepower reduction was due to technology improvements and how much was due to rpm increase (if any).

[PlatinumZealot]

Calm down people...

Up to 850 horsepower is just a mad claim by some random man on the internet.

And up to 850 horsepower still leaves the ICE at 690hp. If you are using super high heating value fuel that was carefully engineered for this purpose this is expected. Still aint 40% efficient though. haha.

[Vortex37]

The discussion was size of the MGUH which is less than 120 kW and runs at 100,000+ rpm so has less than 1/10 of the torque of a direct drive MGUK.

isn't the MGU-K commoned with the crankshaft via gearing ?
the ratio of which is unspecified by rule but might well be about 3, so the MGU-K would run at perhaps 30000 rpm

the 95% assumed efficiency rule at the sensing point being in part justified by consideration of the losses in the gearing
a really efficient MGU-K will legally deliver slightly over 120 kW

5.2.3 The MGU-K must be solely and permanently mechanically linked to the powertrain before the main clutch. This mechanical link must be of fixed speed ratio to the engine crankshaft.
The rotational speed of the MGU-K may not exceed 50,000rpm.
The maximum torque of the MGU-K may not exceed 200Nm. The torque will be referenced to the crankshaft speed and the fixed efficiency correction defined in Article 5.2.2 will be used to monitor the maximum MGU-K torque.
The laminate thickness of the MGU-K may not be less than 0.05mm.
5.2.2 A fixed efficiency correction of 0.95 will be used to monitor the maximum MGU-K power.
5.12.5 The maximum peak voltage on the car must never exceed 1000V.
© 2014 Fédération Internationale de l’Automobile

Probably quite a lot more depending on the voltage/current/gearing matrix.

[gruntguru]

So rpm less than 50,000. The torque (at the electric motor) will need to be at least double that of the MGUH.

Certainly no more than 5% more than 120kW i.e. 126 kW.

[gruntguru]

So by that logic renault have upped the power by 100 bhp in a single year? Is that something to be believed?

If they can up the power by 100 bhp and still have less than a competitor's engine built to the same rulebook - logic would seem to say "yes".

[Juzh]

Can someone explain how variable trumpets are allowed in 2015 regs and not 2014? Was this a late addition?

[Vary]

Can someone explain how variable trumpets are allowed in 2015 regs and not 2014? Was this a late addition?

Regulations says explicitly that variabile intakes are allowed in 2015 only and not in 2014

[Mesteño]

I found this video, might interest you, all engines sound in Jerez.




Doesn't the Ferrari sound at 0:50 like engine was blowing in the curve?

[gruntguru]

Possibly a part-load cylinder-skipping mode. Maintains combustion events at their most efficient load level, whilst reducing overall engine load by having fewer of them.

[mrluke]

Doesn't the Ferrari sound at 0:50 like engine was blowing in the curve?

They sounded like that last year too which is a shame as it probably means they still aren't making the most of their PU.