W06 Rear Wing Vortex: real or not

[NoDivergence]

I guess I'm not quite sure what is being talked about. It's above the wing because there is significant upwash. Then it goes horizontal due to the freestream direction. The "horns" are part of the vortex. Look at the link I put in. EXACTLY what a vortex looks like

[hollus]

This is the image you linked:

The green lines to the right (and twisting) create the normally seen pair of vortexes. The green lines to the left (not twisting), in the center of the wing, create the horns, one to each side of the separators. In this case, an quite exceptionally, we get to see both (4 foggy structures in total) at the same time.
I guess the reason why we see two separate horns is because the work is only hard enough near the end plates where air has nowhere to go to or come from than accelerating backwards and upwards. The central pillar probably interferes too and breaks the effect in two.

[Moose]

photo forensics says....

not a shop...

[turbof1]

This is argueing about using the correct term, but I don't think the airflow structure to the left (cfd render) is a vortex. it's simply a very powerful and compressed airflow structure, which creates a visible haze under the same circumstances that a vortex becomes visible. Just_a_fan explained why.

One should not forget that Mercedes has a fairly unique endplate and wing element philosophy. I think the picture proves this philosophy works very well since the visible airflow like very attached. Such powerful flow usually is very unstable, very prone to convert to spanwise flow and/or detaching. Mercedes does a very good job with it.

[OO7]

This is argueing about using the correct term, but I don't think the airflow structure to the left (cfd render) is a vortex. it's simply a very powerful and compressed airflow structure, which creates a visible haze under the same circumstances that a vortex becomes visible. Just_a_fan explained why.

One should not forget that Mercedes has a fairly unique endplate and wing element philosophy. I think the picture proves this philosophy works very well since the visible airflow like very attached. Such powerful flow usually is very unstable, very prone to convert to spanwise flow and/or detaching. Mercedes does a very good job with it.

And that is the old wing mind you! The new one should be even better.

[Rick Diznik]

This photo shows the Ferrari exhaust plume quite well.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-JMnipcfCO2M/V ... t_6939.jpg

[Rick Diznik]

I just looked at the FIA website, it shows the vortex quite nicely
http://www.fia.com/media-gallery/detail/9546/27377
Sorry still haven't figured out howl to add a photo

[crbassassin]

photo forensics says....

not a shop...

http://fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?i ... i=17046016

What is your logic?

[bdr529]

I found this one, don't know if it's the same shot or from another photographer

Photograph: David Davies/PA
http://www.theguardian.com/news/gallery ... -day#img-9

[Nickel]

While I can believe the rear wing could create such visuals given air with sufficient humidity present, I am having some trouble understanding why the front wing would not be displaying a similar effect. I can only assume that to create such a dramatic effect, ambient conditions would have to be pretty close to ideal (very humid + relatively chilly = dew point very close to ambient temp.)

[miguelalvesreis]

While I can believe the rear wing could create such visuals given air with sufficient humidity present, I am having some trouble understanding why the front wing would not be displaying a similar effect. I can only assume that to create such a dramatic effect, ambient conditions would have to be pretty close to ideal (very humid + relatively chilly = dew point very close to ambient temp.)

Well, these are not seen every day!








=D>

[Nickel]

What amazing pictures!

[WaikeCU]

If I translate those vortexes, is it realistic for me to think that nowadays in F1 overtaking has become even more difficult (consider without DRS) because of this effect? Disrupted airflow for the car in pursuit where inconsistent airflow goes through its aerodynamic parts, which therefor cause a loss in downforce and grip through corners, which is one of the reason why the car in pursuit can't get close enough off corner to the car ahead?

[Moose]

If I translate those vortexes, is it realistic for me to think that nowadays in F1 overtaking has become even more difficult (consider without DRS) because of this effect? Disrupted airflow for the car in pursuit where inconsistent airflow goes through its aerodynamic parts, which therefor cause a loss in downforce and grip through corners, which is one of the reason why the car in pursuit can't get close enough off corner to the car ahead?

Yes, that's exactly the reason that the rules re aero have been progressively more constrained over the past few years.
1) The less aero the cars have, the less they disturb the air
2) The less aero the cars have, the less the disturbed air affects their grip level.

[WaikeCU]

If I translate those vortexes, is it realistic for me to think that nowadays in F1 overtaking has become even more difficult (consider without DRS) because of this effect? Disrupted airflow for the car in pursuit where inconsistent airflow goes through its aerodynamic parts, which therefor cause a loss in downforce and grip through corners, which is one of the reason why the car in pursuit can't get close enough off corner to the car ahead?

Yes, that's exactly the reason that the rules re aero have been progressively more constrained over the past few years.
1) The less aero the cars have, the less they disturb the air
2) The less aero the cars have, the less the disturbed air affects their grip level.

I think it's just the complexity and the ability/attention to detail regarding aerodynamic parts that has caused this. It's part of what technology has been able to let engineers invent and realize aerodynamic complexities. Nowadays we see 4-element front wings with numberous slots. Back in the 80's-90's there was only a single element. 20-30 years ago, you would say this is not even possible. It was maybe possible, but too expensive to realize.