Graphene

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MOWOG
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Joined: 07 Apr 2013, 15:46
Location: Rhode Island, USA

Re: Graphene

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I have read that graphene is being touted as a better material for making battery cathodes. Supposedly, it increases battery power by allowing a more rapid flow of electrons. The articles I read were in relation to battery research for EV's, not for Formula One, but F1 does depend a lot on batteries in the modern era.

One drawback for commercial use is said to be its high price, but that has never deterred the F1 boys in the past. In fact, they rather pride themselves on not using an ordinary solution to a problem when an extraordinarily complex and expensive alternative is available! :P
Some men go crazy; some men go slow. Some men go just where they want; some men never go.

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bdr529
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Joined: 08 Apr 2011, 19:49
Location: Canada

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First things first How are you enjoy winter in Rhode Island MOWOG

I did read that it was expensive to produce right now, and most of the info I'v read seems to be about batteries or smartphones, it seems Samsung leads the way with 38 patents, and 17 more in the pipeline. I could see a F1 team wanting to save weight could replace the display in the steering wheel, or more likely all the tv monitors on the pit wall and in the garage.

I know I could use a 50 inch tv that folds up to the size of a magazine

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MOWOG
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Yes, first things first. I live about 20 miles from Worcester, Massachusetts which at this moment is officially the snowiest city of 100,000 or more in the whole United States. They are looking at damn near 100 inches of the stuff. That's more than Buffalo, ferchrisssake! :shock: The biggest topic around here is the ice dams that form at the edge of our roofs that let water back up and send little rivulets of snow melts down our walls and across our ceilings.

The roads are too narrow for more than one car to pass at a time and there is so much snow at the intersections, you can't see who is coming unless you stick the nose of your car WAAAY out, which leads to a lot of horn blowing and frequent exchanges of the Italian salute! :P

Fortunately, the bride and I will be sailing near the town of Provicenciales, far, far away from our native Providence, next week and thinking rude thoughts about the poor people back home who can't afford to get away from the snow hell of 2015. One expects this type of weather up in the frozen tundra of Canadia, but not here in the cradle of civilization as we know it! :twisted:

Any way, what were we talking about? Oh, yes, graphene. I only know what I read but I am following the search for the "God Battery" pretty closely and graphene is the word that trips lightly off the lips of many who are spending vast amount of government dollars in the quest. It's supposed to be the key to the 200 mile affordable electric car. Or a Tesla Model S that scorches to 60 in 1.1 seconds! :shock:


We'll see," said the Zen master. :?
Some men go crazy; some men go slow. Some men go just where they want; some men never go.

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bdr529
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Joined: 08 Apr 2011, 19:49
Location: Canada

Re: Graphene

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MOWOG wrote: Any way, what were we talking about? Oh, yes, graphene. I only know what I read but I am following the search for the "God Battery" pretty closely and graphene is the word that trips lightly off the lips of many who are spending vast amount of government dollars in the quest. It's supposed to be the key to the 200 mile affordable electric car. Or a Tesla Model S that scorches to 60 in 1.1 seconds! :shock:
We'll see," said the Zen master. :?
I can see trying to extending the range of electric cars, would certainly help speed up development,
it would be nice to see them extend the battery life on cordless power tools, would make my life a little easier.
Presently I'm working on a construction project that will double the size of a water treatment plant, A couple of the guys that work there said that this product would be used in the water filtration and the desalination process and would replace more then half of the equipment in use today, one of the guys said that it's the speed in which Graphene can do the job, that is the most impressive part, hours instead of days
MOWOG wrote:One expects this type of weather up in the frozen tundra of Canadia, but not here in the cradle of civilization as we know it! :twisted:
I haven't left my igloo in a few days, I'v been waiting for Nanook to come by with the sled dogs so we can go on a seal hunt :D

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MOWOG
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Joined: 07 Apr 2013, 15:46
Location: Rhode Island, USA

Re: Graphene

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I've been waiting for Nanook to come by with the sled dogs so we can go on a seal hunt
Oh, my. That DOES sound like such a good time! :lol:
Some men go crazy; some men go slow. Some men go just where they want; some men never go.

rich1701
rich1701
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009, 17:09

Re: Graphene

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This is quite an interesting video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTd4KK0sM4g

The use of Graphene could be as revolutionary as the introduction of carbon fibre in F1.

I have a few questions. How soon do you think a team will start making elements out of graphene? Are there any teams experimenting with the material now in R&D? Hypothetically, If a team introduced a graphene rear wing element this year, would it be legal? How would graphene absorb energy in impact tests compared with carbon fibre?

Miguel
Miguel
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Joined: 17 Apr 2008, 11:36
Location: San Sebastian (Spain)

Re: Graphene

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rich1701 wrote:This is quite an interesting video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTd4KK0sM4g

The use of Graphene could be as revolutionary as the introduction of carbon fibre in F1.

I have a few questions. How soon do you think a team will start making elements out of graphene? Are there any teams experimenting with the material now in R&D? Hypothetically, If a team introduced a graphene rear wing element this year, would it be legal? How would graphene absorb energy in impact tests compared with carbon fibre?
I don't see why, without reading the regulations, a legal-shaped rear wing made of graphene would be illegal, as long as it passes the deflection tests. It's after all 100% pure carbon. I very much doubt we'll see a macroscopic part in F1 made of graphene any time soon, and not least because it is transparent. On electronics, this may (very optimistic may) happen in 5 to 10 years.

Also, regarding structure, we have to bear in mind that carbon fibre is basically manipulating polymers so that they adopt something resembling the graphene structure, layered and woven in a way that interests us.

By the way, and as a factoid, there is a lovely theorem [1] that states that pure 2D materials must not exist. This was one of the reasons people thought graphene was not feasible before 2004. It turns out that graphene cheats Wigner-Mermin by creating ripples, so it's no longer perfectly 2D.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mermin%E2 ... er_theorem
I am not amazed by F1 cars in Monaco. I want to see them driving in the A8 highway: Variable radius corners, negative banking, and extreme narrowings that Tilke has never dreamed off. Oh, yes, and "beautiful" weather tops it all.

"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future." Niels Bohr

sgth0mas
sgth0mas
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Joined: 18 Mar 2015, 03:42

Re: Graphene

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rich1701 wrote:This is quite an interesting video

...

The use of Graphene could be as revolutionary as the introduction of carbon fibre in F1.

I have a few questions. How soon do you think a team will start making elements out of graphene? Are there any teams experimenting with the material now in R&D? Hypothetically, If a team introduced a graphene rear wing element this year, would it be legal? How would graphene absorb energy in impact tests compared with carbon fibre?
I can't imagine graphene being used as a major mechanical conponent within a few decades. At least not in a manner similar to CF.

I agree with Miguel that graphene may be possible in electronics many years from now.

I've been waiting for years just to see carbon nanotubes adopted widely, and that hasn't happened. The only reasonable use I've seen in my engineering career has been for their electrical conductivity...and that company still isn't mass producing enough to make an impact. I am aware that there are some mechanical components with nanotubes but I've never actually come close to designing with it.