Khamsin Virtual Racecar Challenge 2015

[cdsavage]

This is what I'm proposing as a change to the rules on the cooling inlets/outlets:

- cooling inlet inner template is 600mm long instead of 300mm

- cooling inlet outer template 1 and 2 lengths of 575/325mm (a 100mm decrease in overall length to allow the inlet to be moved forward slightly, if necessary)

- cooling outlet surface must be at least 1000mm rearward of the inlet, rather than 600mm

I'm open to input on this. I know that compared to last year, this is a late change, but this is the first year that we've written a rulebook of our own from scratch, so there was always going to be a greater need for adjustments. Keep in mind that there is still a month and a half until the first race.

[RicME85]

Just leave it alone.

Keep in mind that there is still a month and a half until the first race.

Yeah...ONLY a month and a half.

As you say, its the first year that you have written dedicated rules, dont go messing everyone about this close to the start date. If you arent happy then start a list for next year and add it to the top of that.

[CAEdevice]

@cdsavage: from my point of view your proposal are all approved.

[MadMatt]

I think there is no need to be angry about this.

I would tend to agree with Ric, maybe it is a good idea now to leave things as they are. I would only have to change my design because of the first rule so no big deal, but I think all these 3 rules won't make a big difference anyway, and I think it will force people to change their design (more or less heavily).

Leave everything as it is and let's release the final rule book, I think we are pretty good as it is now

[cdsavage]

Ric: if there's a specific reason that this change will take a lot of work to adapt to on your design, then PM me with a couple of images of the problem area and we can come up with a better alternative.

[variante]

Chris, those are reasonable changes, but it's unreasonable to make such changes at this point of the year. Therefore i strongly disagree to change anything on the rulebook; it is good as it is anyways, and it will be even better next year.

Also, i'm speaking for personal interest: as you could guess from the definition i gave earlier of my car ("batmobile"), my approach on this year's design is quite unconventional, and pretty borderline. Those changes would force me to get rid of all the work i've done so far and start again from scratch.

[cdsavage]

Chris, those are reasonable changes, but it's unreasonable to make such changes at this point of the year. Therefore i strongly disagree to change anything on the rulebook; it is good as it is anyways, and it will be even better next year.

Also, i'm speaking for personal interest: as you could guess from the definition i gave earlier of my car ("batmobile"), my approach on this year's design is quite unconventional, and pretty borderline. Those changes would force me to get rid of all the work i've done so far and start again from scratch.

Could you please send me a PM with a couple of images?

[CAEdevice]

I'm so curious about all your projects
To be honest the new rules would not change too much for me and the sidepods would look more realistic.
At the moment the harder rules to respect have been the 10mm thickness and the side impact profiles.

[variante]

Could you please send me a PM with a couple of images?

About this aspect, are you going to be the rule inspector? It is inevitable that you get to see all the designs sooner or later, right?

[RicME85]

Ric: if there's a specific reason that this change will take a lot of work to adapt to on your design, then PM me with a couple of images of the problem area and we can come up with a better alternative.

Not impacting me unless I make a start and its changed yet again, I'm just thinking of others who are much further along than anything I have put together.

Things have been quiet for a while on the rule side of things then this comes up, it feels like tinkering for tinkering sake.

Run the competition with the rule book as is, if anything crops up, change it for next year. You cannot expect a perfect rule book first time out, hell look what the FIA produce for F1!

[cdsavage]

Could you please send me a PM with a couple of images?

About this aspect, are you going to be the rule inspector? It is inevitable that you get to see all the designs sooner or later, right?

Yes, I will be judging the entries for legality.

Things have been quiet for a while on the rule side of things then this comes up, it feels like tinkering for tinkering sake.

There is a specific problem I want to address with this change, based on a concept that has been shared with me.

[RicME85]

What's wrong with it?
Is it well and truly beyond what the rules are trying to achieve and essentially a bit of a cheat design it just a cosmetic anomaly?

When proposing a change to the rules its probably best to lead with 'something is a wry with the rules and needs changing to keep things fair' rather than just saying we are going to do X change.

[cdsavage]

I can't discuss other people's entries on the forum if they are shared with me privately. Whether you consider it a 'a bit of a cheat design' or not is subjective, it was a design that would cut down on drag pretty significantly, which might require us to re-evaluate the tracks that we're looking at for the final 4 rounds, which we're already having a bit of trouble with.

[RicME85]

Well its not discussing a design if you come out with what you just said...so why didn't you lead with that?

Anyway, IMO, whoever has come up with the design should have a pat on the back rather than having their design castrated.

The competition is about interpreting the rules to get the best result, if you don't want that then just give a basic model and let people change wing angles.

Just my opinion on the matter.

[CAEdevice]

Well, I'm not involved in the discussion beacuse the proposal of changing the rules doesn't impact very much on my design (also beacuse I am quite far from starting the definitive design, I'll do only aftere OCCFD 1.0 will be released). Anyway, it seems to me that the time befeore the first race is quite long, expecially if we consider that the first race will not bring points.

I thought about two different (alternative) comprimises:

1) To apply the rule changes now, but mildening the changes (*)

2) To leave everything as it is (but consider that a 1.0 version of the rule book was never released...), applying the changes after the "high downforce" races. I think that each car will be almost redesigned passing from "extreme high DF" to "extreme low DF" setup, or, at least, it will happend with mycar. In this way the transition to the new sidepods would have a smaller impact.

(*) here is an example of the mildening:
- cooling inlet inner template is 600mm(450mm) long instead of 300mm
- cooling inlet outer template 1 and 2 lengths of 575/325mm (a 100mm decrease in overall length to allow the inlet to be moved forward slightly, if necessary)
- cooling outlet surface must be at least 1000mm(800mm) rearward of the inlet, rather than 600mm

PS: A tip for who is a student or a teacher: if possible avoid using SketchUp to design the car, there are many parametric CAD packges (SolidWorks, Creo, and many other) that are free or extremely low cost for students, wich are much more powerful and will help very much when changing/evolving your geoemtry. To learn one of them will also help you in the future.