Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

[Facts Only]

I've just re-read the Autosport story and the quotes from Honda and they both use the Terms "faulty" and "redesign" which are contradictory. Either the seal was faulty (IE Not made correctly to the design/quality requirements) so should just be replaced with a non-faulty item or the design was wrong in the first place in which case the seal wasn't faulty, the design was.

Perhaps they mean that the sealing system is faulty, IE that it doesn't work as intended due to an oversight at the design stage. From experience this can happen quite often as a few microns can be the difference between a seal working perfectly and oil/coolant pissing out everywhere (anyone remember the dyno' fire at HPP?) so can be a bit of a trial and error process.

With it being a 2 day turnaround I doubt they are changing the design of a rubber component as there isn't enough time to re-tool, likely if will be a change to the size/interference/tolerance on a machined housing that can be re-designed and re-made in a matter of hours.

That's just my speculation anyway, I don't think this is a serious thing at all but it is losing them valuable mileage.

[CjC]

I'd imagine it's a design fault?
I don't have an engineering education though...

Why wasn't this issue seen/solved during dyno testing?
It should have been...

The more testing goes in the more I'm thinking honda aren't ready for racing, do you think they underestimated the challenge that lay ahead of them?

[PlatinumZealot]

But you just don't redesign and build a seal then assemble the MGU-K on an engine then ship it to Spain in a day.
Therefore the seal has to have a fast lead time. If the seal is for a shaft, then this means it must be off the shelf. If the seal is just a gasket, hover, then I can sorta see them redesigning, manufacturing and installing it on the PU in a day.

[Facts Only]

Why wasn't this issue seen/solved during dyno testing?
It should have been...

Even the best Dyno cant simulate 4g+ brake and cornering forces, throwing the oil/coolant around AND the effect of the engine being a stressed member and ever-so-slightly deforming during running AND localised hot and cold areas due to the cars bodywork/installation causing non-uniform expansion of the components AND dust and guff that you get in the real world track running AND the fact its being controlled by a human who won't drive exactly like computer controlled dyno's etc etc etc

Dyno's are great but they cant replace real world testing.

[FW17]

But you just don't redesign and build a seal then assemble the MGU-K on an engine then ship it to Spain in a day.
Therefore the seal has to have a fast lead time. If the seal is for a shaft, then this means it must be off the shelf. If the seal is just a gasket, hover, then I can sorta see them redesigning, manufacturing and installing it on the PU in a day.

Isn't the MGU for Honda made by Mclaren?

[CjC]

Why wasn't this issue seen/solved during dyno testing?
It should have been...

Even the best Dyno cant simulate 4g+ brake and cornering forces, throwing the oil/coolant around AND the effect of the engine being a stressed member and ever-so-slightly deforming during running AND localised hot and cold areas due to the cars bodywork/installation causing non-uniform expansion of the components AND dust and guff that you get in the real world track running AND the fact its being controlled by a human who won't drive exactly like computer controlled dyno's etc etc etc

Dyno's are great but they cant replace real world testing.

I agree, but wouldn't 21 real world laps equate to thousands upon thousands of miles dyno testing?

[ollandos]

nice opportunity for alonso tomorrow to push on the limit ...for glory laps ....

[tok-tokkie]

Seals can be cnc machined from bar stock. An example http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/C ... 80953.html

[dren]

Why wasn't this issue seen/solved during dyno testing?
It should have been...

Even the best Dyno cant simulate 4g+ brake and cornering forces, throwing the oil/coolant around AND the effect of the engine being a stressed member and ever-so-slightly deforming during running AND localised hot and cold areas due to the cars bodywork/installation causing non-uniform expansion of the components AND dust and guff that you get in the real world track running AND the fact its being controlled by a human who won't drive exactly like computer controlled dyno's etc etc etc

Dyno's are great but they cant replace real world testing.

I agree, but wouldn't 21 real world laps equate to thousands upon thousands of miles dyno testing?

Nope, it just doesn't relate. The PU doesn't see the stresses real use in a car adds.

[GoranF1]

McLaren: "Despite the stoppage and the limited running, Jenson was upbeat about the car's balance, handling and predictability"

if anyone has the experience......

[techF1LES]

Layout of the Honda PU according to Giorgio Piola


via @piusgasso

EDIT

Compressor and turbine are not placed at the ends of the engine as in the German V6, but forms a single block in this sequence: turbine, electric motor and compressor while Renault and Ferrari had electric motor in the V of the engine with the compressor and turbine in a single block.

[akshat21]

Layout of the Honda PU according to Giorgio Piola

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-O06f0CQAAxroq.png:large

via @piusgasso

Maybe Someone can give a gist of the article in English??

[ian_s]

the graphic in that article seems to suggest that the turbine is at the front of the 'turbo' assembly, surely that would mean the exhaust exiting the turbine towards the front of the car and having to go through a 180 degree change to exit out the rear?
i cant see that being a good design!

[Facts Only]

If it laid out like that with the turbine at the front I'll be absolutely flabbergasted.

It would mean that both the inlet tract and the tailpipe would have to do a tight 180deg bend, which would be a packaging nightmare, add weight and reduce the turbine efficiency. The biggest question though is whats the advantage? It would have to be something spectacular to overcome the problem above but I can't see one.

[dren]

If it laid out like that with the turbine at the front I'll be absolutely flabbergasted.

It would mean that both the inlet tract and the tailpipe would have to do a tight 180deg bend, which would be a packaging nightmare, add weight and reduce the turbine efficiency. The biggest question though is whats the advantage? It would have to be something spectacular to overcome the problem above but I can't see one.

I agree, it just doesn't make sense. Plus, the earlier picture of the back of the Mclaren looked like the intake from the roll hoop went to the front of the ICE. Lemme go look for it...

Here it is:



The upper intake feeds the coolers, the lower looks to bend 90 degrees down towards the front of the ICE.