Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

[Facts Only]

I know this may sound silly and i`m not sure if the tech regs allow it but couldn`t Honda have set up some kind of rig which in part would give some of stresses that they knew the engine was going to endure?

that still wouldn't put g-force stresses on some of the internal moving components. it also wouldnt show up what would happen on a rubber seal if it undergoes 3g of lateral load. its possible that the seal no longer seals. or after prolonged forces cause the seal to eventually deform enough to cause a failure. none of this would be possible on a dyno.

i'm fairly sure that mercedes had their PU running in a mule car long before it ever ran in an F1 car.

Nope, never happened. Start of 2014 testing was the first time the Merc' PU had run in a car of any type. I know this to be 100% fact.

Some teams have a "car on dyno" where the rear end of the car is connected to the car, this can help simulate the real airflows and heat management under the bodywork and also some of the loads from the suspension and vibrations etc from the gearbox and diff but its the G-Forces that just cant be simulated.

[FW17]

Like tHese you mean

Surprised teams do not talk about it

[Facts Only]

Yeah that sort of thing, the ones I have seen are a bit more permanent though and built in as a proper dedicated dyno' room.

[sweetmate]

what i dont understand and slightly baffles me is with big manufacturers like honda and Ferrari etc why they dont just bolt there design to the back of an lmp chassis and pound round there test circuits. But wasnt sure if Ferrari did this though with that laferrari mule they had going. it would certainly allow you to get a good grasp of software and hardware issues.

[CjC]

Sorry if this is taking the discussion off-topic, but how do you guys think Mercedes developed such a reliable 2014 engine before any testing?

Probably by looking more at the data of how forces work at their V8, then extrapolating that correctly to the PU. And a much longer R&D period, which leads to less variables being omitted.

Also comes down to having the right people with the right experience in your company.

Also, a lot of issues stem from miscommunications between software and hardware. Again looks like Mercedes just put more effort into developing the software.

That is by no means criticism to Honda. One shouldn't forget the small time frame Honda had to develop their PU. Less time means more things risk to be underdeveloped and more variables are going to be omitted.

What makes you say that honda only had a small time frame to develop their PU?

[FW17]

what i dont understand and slightly baffles me is with big manufacturers like honda and Ferrari etc why they dont just bolt there design to the back of an lmp chassis and pound round there test circuits. But wasnt sure if Ferrari did this though with that laferrari mule they had going. it would certainly allow you to get a good grasp of software and hardware issues.

MClaren did not eVen HaVe to do tHat

THey Had a MP4-29H ready; tHey Could HaVe just CoVered tHe wHeels and Sent it on traCk

[poolboy67]

what i dont understand and slightly baffles me is with big manufacturers like honda and Ferrari etc why they dont just bolt there design to the back of an lmp chassis and pound round there test circuits. But wasnt sure if Ferrari did this though with that laferrari mule they had going. it would certainly allow you to get a good grasp of software and hardware issues.

MClaren did not eVen HaVe to do tHat

THey Had a MP4-29H ready; tHey Could HaVe just CoVered tHe wHeels and Sent it on traCk

i'm sorry but why the hell do you have to type like that?

on topic: i'm sure FIA would get hint of any teams testing their engines/cars outside of FIA approval. think about it. the team would first off have to book a non FIA regulated track. secondly, none of the current teams have an active lmp car project. third, the logistics of doing secret testing is incredibly hard and expensive. fourth, word of secret testing spreads very fast. on top of all, it's illegal to do unauthorized testing, so the sanctions and risks are too high.

i don't think the laFerrari ever had the v6 in it. it's just not that simple as to bolt an f1 engine into a road car. furthermore, you cannot achieve similar g-forces and such in a road car, as in an f1 car. so the data would be completely irrelevant.

[Del Boy]

what i dont understand and slightly baffles me is with big manufacturers like honda and Ferrari etc why they dont just bolt there design to the back of an lmp chassis and pound round there test circuits. But wasnt sure if Ferrari did this though with that laferrari mule they had going. it would certainly allow you to get a good grasp of software and hardware issues.

MClaren did not eVen HaVe to do tHat

THey Had a MP4-29H ready; tHey Could HaVe just CoVered tHe wHeels and Sent it on traCk

No that would contravene the rules of how and when you test use a current car. MP4-29 is 2013 car and can only be tested as a 2014 car. Therefore in Europe and only 12 days after 31st jan and 2 weeks before first etc
22.1 Testing of Current Cars (TCC) shall be defined as any track running time, not part of an Event, in which a competitor entered in the Championship participates (or in which a third party participates on behalf of a competitor), using cars which were designed and built in order to comply with the 2013, 2014 or 2015 Formula One Technical Regulations. No competitor may sell or make available a car of the current year to any third party without the full knowledge of the FIA.
Each competitor will also be permitted to carry out two Promotional Events (PE) with the above cars which will not be considered TCC. A PE shall be defined as an event in which a competitor participates purely for marketing or promotional purposes. No such test may exceed 100km in length and only tyres manufactured specifically for this purpose by the appointed supplier may be used.
In order that an FIA observer may be appointed, competitors must inform the FIA of any planned TCC or PE at least 72 hours before it is due to commence, the following information should be provided :
i) The precise specification of the car(s) to be used.
ii) The name(s) of the driver(s) if known.
iii) The nature of the test.
iv) The date(s) and intended duration of the test.
v) The purpose of the test.
22.2 Testing of Previous Cars (TPC) shall be defined as any track running time, not part of an Event, in which a competitor entered in the Championship participates (or in which a third party participates on behalf of a competitor), using cars which were designed and built in order to comply with the 2010, 2011 or 2012 Formula One Technical Regulations.

[JimClarkFan]

Hold on, so now we are saying that the Honda PU isn't up to task?

[PhillipM]

I don't think anybody is saying that, we've seen none of the severe overheating, turbine failures, exhaust breakages, energy recovery issues, etc, that we saw last year, in fact, if it had been in last years test, you would have said it was probably one of the cars in best shape, all they've had so far is interference issues with sensors and a dicky seal.

[Del Boy]

The line Alonso was taking on both test days through turn 3 was very wide and was probably the reason when the wind changed the car under steered onto the AstroTurf.
Was he running wide or was the car under steering wide or were they trying to hide lap times, sandbagging??

[FW17]

i'm sorry but why the hell do you have to type like that?

on topic: i'm sure FIA

I Have Some keyboard issue; some lower Cases do not work

Personally I would not try testing as long as biased people like Charlie Whiting are involved wit tHe Sport

[marcush.]

If you want to you can the run the thing as long as you like.
Just think about it: Honda announcing a feasibility study to look into the potential of the Formula1 PU as a base for use in Endurance Racing -Build something resembling a LMP car -or just buy one and go testing .Voila all temps and forces are there intsnatantly.Who would tell Honda not to look into an endurance programme ?

Formula 1 unable to police things like bendy wings and traction control surely cannot really control what OEMs are doing.
These entities have their own full blown proving grounds-No access for FIA there at all.You also have no access to development departments ...so how in hell would you be in position to decifer a "normal" study from a dedicated formula 1 related project? I think Honda are simply on their backfeet beacause the whole project was inherited from Pure and they did not realise just how far off it is from what Daimler AMG has come up with ...

[radosav]

Button is happy with the car!
http://en.espnf1.com/mclaren/motorsport ... WjMb45c.99

[Italiano]

It's PR, of course he's gonna say he's happy with it. He can't come out and say, damn this is one big heap of...