Sauber F1 Team 2015

[Phil]

Joe Saward on the friction between V.D. Garde and Sauber:

https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2015/03 ... al-action/

(...)

The team could pay Van der Garde a settlement but it is not entirely clear – in legal terms – what Giedo has lost from the decision not to run him. He has not lost out financially because he was the one who would be paying (and that is presumably written into the contract that he signed). Van der Garde may claim damages but, as he was the one paying, it is hard to see how he will win anything financial from a court because arguments about damage to his reputation and career are not going to be very successful, given that he has always been seen in F1 circles as a pay-driver, even though he does do a decent solid job. It is hard, however, to argue that being dropped by Sauber would in any way materially affect his image and longterm prospects. That may sound harsh, but that is the way the law will look upon it.

(...)

One might surmise from all of this that the legal action is not designed for anything other than to embarrass Sauber, which would be revenge for the team’s cynical, but some might say necessary, decision. All things considered it is hard to see what anyone has to gain from all of this.

It's a good read.

[db__]

v.d. Garde won nothing. He won one single court in a country that does not hosts a Grand Prix. The verdict isn't appliable abroad.

That's not necessarily true. Arbitral Awards in International Arbitration can be applicable/enforced in multiple jurisdictions under the New York Convention (http://www.newyorkconvention.org/) so a decision in Switzerland could suffice - it may be that action in courts in other countries may be required to 'enforce' the award rather than make the decision.

Regarding the weight that should be placed upon the decision and the reason for going to that ASA it's likely that the reason that the first action was taken where it was is that it was specified in a Dispute Resolution Clause.

[Jonnycraig]

I'm quite surprised Sauber let this thing slip so far. Usually these things are handled in all serenity (actually secrecy is a better word), far away from any media attention or courts, with both parties reaching an agreement where drivers gets compensated and the team gets a signature from the driver to never ever speak of this in public. So either v.d. garde refused to reach such a 'beneath the table' agreement, or Sauber completely and utterly ignored him.

Van Der Garde is married to the daughter of Marcel Boekhoorn. Estimated worth, £1bn.

They clearly don't want or need the money back, they want the race seat that Sauber signed a binding contract for. And clearly that's very bad news for Sauber.

Clearly it has all been handled in secrecy until now. Van Der Garde took them to arbitration and won. By now filing their driver list its the FIA, they've ignord that ruling and so its all come out as he once again seeks it's legal enforcement.

Right, but as mentioned that will probably require going to each court of each country that hosts a race. Well, looks like he is actually intending that, as he wants to the court in Melbourne on monday...

v.d. Garde won nothing. He won one single court in a country that does not hosts a Grand Prix. The verdict isn't appliable abroad.

Even if the verdict of the Arbitrator wasn't upheld abroad, it would still be relevant within Switzerland where the team is based, and where VD Garde would undoubtedly be back in court the day after Melbourne, armed not only with the arbitrators verdict, but also further evidence of the team being in contempt of it.

The case about taking it country to country is equally in VD Garde's hands, can a team in such dire financial straits that they needed to hire 3 paydriver for 2 seats afford to go to court 20 times a season trying to keep him out of the car...certainly Bookhoern's pockets are deeper than Saubers at the moment.

[turbof1]

I get that, but it does not look like Sauber wants to give up that easily.

Consider that if they do bind in and give v.d. Garde a racing seat, that they need to kick out one of their current drivers, who will also be in the position of doing with Giedo does. Since that driver has actually tested already and will be traveling to Melbourne in the assumption he will race, I think the hypothetical driver getting kicked out will have more cause to go to court then Giedo has. You can see that from Sauber's perspective it's certainly not going to help them and will probably take their chances.

Giedo on the other hand is wasting time trying to force out a seat in court. As long as he is bringing Sauber to court to specifically get a seat from them, no other team will want to negotiate with him. Equally, if he lands a seat in the meanwhile somewhere else, it automatically means he drops any claims on a seat at Sauber.

If Giedo really pushes this through, then I see Sauber going completely down on this. Sauber no longer in F1, Giedo not having a seat at Sauber and his reputation damaged to the point not a single team will want to have him.

[Jonnycraig]

I get that, but it does not look like Sauber wants to give up that easily.

Consider that if they do bind in and give v.d. Garde a racing seat, that they need to kick out one of their current drivers, who will also be in the position of doing with Giedo does. Since that driver has actually tested already and will be traveling to Melbourne in the assumption he will race, I think the hypothetical driver getting kicked out will have more cause to go to court then Giedo has. You can see that from Sauber's perspective it's certainly not going to help them and will probably take their chances.

Giedo on the other hand is wasting time trying to force out a seat in court. As long as he is bringing Sauber to court to specifically get a seat from them, no other team will want to negotiate with him. Equally, if he lands a seat in the meanwhile somewhere else, it automatically means he drops any claims on a seat at Sauber.

If Giedo really pushes this through, then I see Sauber going completely down on this. Sauber no longer in F1, Giedo not having a seat at Sauber and his reputation damaged to the point not a single team will want to have him.

As Ericssons manager has said today, if VD Garde wins, Nasr is out of a seat as the other contracts predate his. Problem for Sauber of course is that they are then out of their main backer and of course probably F1.

VD Garde has nothing to lose here. If he settles, he's out of F1 forever. If he wins, he's back in F1 for as long as Sauber survive.

I wouldn't worry too much about his reputation as with a racing mad, billionaire father in law, if worst comes to worst he can fund his own racing at another level as VDG Racing.

[turbof1]

I'm pretty sure if you ask Nasr's manager, you'll get the same answer about Ericsonn getting the boot. You might be correct of course. But if contracts couldn't be broken, then we wouldn't have this discussion.

Sauber will cease to exist at the moment they can't pay up the fines anymore. Fines for not letting v.d. Garde drive. Giedo is not going to get that seat back; Sauber will take their chances on that rather then kicking out the driver who has more to loose and more viable arguments to bring to court.

I however don't see this going as far. As said, the contract cannot reasonably be forfilled anymore. There's a precedence for this. If Sauber ever finds itself facing any meaningful verdict, they'll appeal it, bring forward they can't give him the seat and will be verdicted to paying a fine and compensation.

Somehow I doubt he can just make limitless use of his father-in-law's resources. Else he wouldn't be vying for a Sauber seat in the first place, but would have raised the ante to get a seat at FI or Lotus. Or just buy his own team. My impression? Patience of his father in law ran out and he is not getting anymore funding to find a different seat.

[knabbel]

I'm pretty sure if you ask Nasr's manager, you'll get the same answer.

Yes and Sauber will cease to exist at the moment they can't pay up the fines anymore. Fines for not letting v.d. Garde drive. Giedo is not going to get that seat back; Sauber will take their chances on that rather then kicking out the driver who has more to loose and more viable arguments to bring to court.

Somehow I doubt he can just make limitless use of his father-in-law's resources. Else he wouldn't be vying for a Sauber seat in the first place, but would have raised the ante to get a seat at FI or Lotus. Or just buy his own team. My impression? Patience of his father in law ran out and he is not getting anymore funding to find a different seat.

First of all I have to admit that i'm a little bit biased as a Dutchman.

If the court is ruling in favor of Giedo and as a result it will bring the end of Sauber, the only person to blame is Kaltenborn. She was the one that signed too many contracts.

[turbof1]

Agreed of course. Morally speaking, they did not treat Giedo kindly.although F1 never really was the place for that.

(Niets persoonlijks tegen Giedo trouwens .)

[Jonnycraig]

I'm pretty sure if you ask Nasr's manager, you'll get the same answer about Ericsonn getting the boot. You might be correct of course. But if contracts couldn't be broken, then we wouldn't have this discussion.

Of course, although from a legal standpoint, Nasr would the one left out as his contract was signed after the other two. In the hypothetical situation of a driver being dropped, let's be honest it would be Ericsson.

Somehow I doubt he can just make limitless use of his father-in-law's resources. Else he wouldn't be vying for a Sauber seat in the first place, but would have raised the ante to get a seat at FI or Lotus. Or just buy his own team. My impression? Patience of his father in law ran out and he is not getting anymore funding to find a different seat.

If he had been cut off by Bookhoern there would be no court appeals at all as Van Der Garde wouldn't have had the funds to pay for the seat.

With regards only being at Sauber, supposedly he signed the contract at the start of 2014 for a 2015 race seat, and even aside from that, he didn't find out that Sauber were reneging until November, by which time there were no other seats left. Also worth mentioning here that Bookhoern did have an F1 team - Spyker - and he quickly came to his senses.

From some of the reports now coming out about Saubers actions last season, my guess is that it's far more personal from VD Garde & backers than an F1 drive.

[turbof1]

I think that's probably the biggest issue - vd garde took it very personal. Of course they did him wrong, but I feel this is more an emotional response. I don't effectively see him dragging a seat out of this. Sauber, when they eventually show up at such a court case, will be pay a fine and move on.

[Jolle]

I'm a dutchman aswel, but I presume he doesn't expect to be racing in Australia, but I think he had a contract (with an investment plan into the team) for testing in '14 and racing in '15. If they didn't held up their side of the contract, but GvdG did, Sauber has to pay up. You can't sign contracts, cash the money and then see if there is a bigger fish out there somewhere.... If he gets his money back, I could imagine him stepping in at Manor.

[knabbel]

I think that Giedo will hurt Sauber verry badly by prooving in a court that a contract with the team is worth less that the toilet paper they are using in the hospitality

If I was a sponsor of a race driver I would not advise him to sign a contract with Sauber.

I think that Giedo has a contract from Manor in his pocket, but he can't sign it yet because officialy he has an contract with Sauber. He now wants to show in court that he is keeping himself to the contract and that he want's to race. I think that the court wil rule in his favor, but that Sauber wil refuse to let him drive. And then he can sign the Manor contract.

[Jonnycraig]

From Telegraaf today:

VD Garde has a confirmed signed and sealed contract from 28th June 2014, that predates by several months those of Ericsson & Nasr.

They went to the Swiss court of arbitration last week and it voted unanimously in favour of van der Garde

The Victorian Supreme Court won't make a new judgement on the dispute but is asked to execute the Swiss order. If the Supreme Court execute the order he will be allowed to walk into the paddock, with the aid of police officers, and claim his seat on Thursday morning.

If Sauber doesn't follow the Swiss arbitrators orders the team's assets can be seized and management arrested.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/telesport/autos ... rde__.html

Should be interesting

[Phil]

Well, the news is now surfacing in local newspapers:

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/sport/motor ... y/13945772

Das Schweizer Schiedsgericht hat in einem erstinstanzlichen Entscheid dem Antrag von Giedo van der Gardes stattgegeben. Die Verantwortlichen des Sauber-Rennstalls müssen demnach alle Handlungen unterlassen, die den Niederländer daran hindern könnten, «als einer der beiden nominierten Fahrer bei Sauber an der Formel-1-WM 2015 teilnehmen zu können».

Das Urteil ist rechtlich verbindlich, aber noch nicht rechtskräftig. Aus diesem Grund hat Van der Garde zusätzlich vor einem australischen Gericht in Melbourne seinen Anspruch eingeklagt. Der Holländer ist nach wie vor der Meinung, sich mit Sauber auf eine Anstellung als Stammfahrer für die Saison 2015 geeinigt zu haben. Vor dem Gerichtshof in Melbourne, wo am übernächsten Sonntag die Formel-1-Saison beginnt, findet am nächsten Montag eine erste Anhörung statt.

Monisha Kaltenborn, CEO und Chefin des Sauber-Rennstalls, gibt zum Rechtsstreit mit dem ehemaligen Angestellten keine Auskunft. «Da es sich um ein laufendes Verfahren handelt, wäre es unangebracht, sich zu einzelnen Details zu äussern. Wir werden jedoch alles daran setzen, die Interessen unseres Teams und des Unternehmens zu wahren», wird die promovierte Juristin in einem Communiqué des Rennstalls zitiert.

Eigene Interessen des Sauber-Teams wahren, das heisst in Bezug auf die Fahrerpaarung, wie geplant mit den neu engagierten Marcus Ericsson und Felipe Nasr die WM 2015 zu bestreiten. (si)

In here it sais that the verdict of the Swiss court of arbitration is not yet legally binding. I suspect this means that the verdict could be still overturned, if Sauber challenge it. I'm not quite sure how the court of arbitration works, but if it's anything like a civil case, either party can still proceed to a higher court if they are not happy with the verdict. If there isn't a higher court to determine the matter, it may be that the verdict only becomes legally binding after a few days/weeks, perhaps to give the team the necessary time to comply with it. It may be for this reason that V.D. Garde is going to the local Victorian court in an attempt to get them to force Sauber to comply with that ruling for the upcoming Melbourne Grand Prix.

Unfortunately, there's not much more in the article. Monika is not saying much, as it would be unwise to do so while the case is still in progress. It also sais that a hearing at the Victorian court will take place on Monday.


EDIT: "erstinstanzlich" - in the context that the Swiss court of Arbitration has ruled in a first instance points to the fact that Sauber can still continue to fight the verdict at the Swiss court of Arbitration. In other words, from what it sounds like - while the verdict has been ruled, it isn't 'legally binding' yet and can still be overturned in a further hearing. Due to the nature of the season starting in little over a week, V.D. Garde is trying to get the Victorian Court to rule in his favour. I'm not sure if this is realistic, if the verdict at the Swiss court is not legally binding yet...

Gonna be interesting for sure though...

[R_Redding]

I find this quite enlightening in a "What comes around ~ Goes around" sense.

The teams are very litigeous when it comes to drivers , employees and suppliers ... I have two family members who work for F1 teams (including an elder brother) who will barely acknowledge which team they work for ..let alone discuss anything juicy for fear of it coming back to them.

Monisha is a qualified lawyer.. she must have known that GVDG has already successfully sued Force India in 2010 for something similar and that he'd probably do the same now.