Alonso's Crash

[Manoah2u]

I think it might be possible fatigue.

well, though that is a very interesting and plausible possibility, truth remains it's not like Alonso was complaining of fatigue before and that there was something with him whilst they are preparing for race weekend in Melbourne, which will be a lot more hefty on the body compared to testing.

the official statemant is a gush of wind affected the car and as a indirect result the outcome was the way it was. Mclaren have no reason to claim anything else or state something else since people are on it like hungry flies on a deyacing corpse.
they would get eaten alive.

[JimClarkFan]

Don't know if anyone caught the bbc video about the alonso crash, but coultard was pretty daming.

I don't believe in much of the bs floating around.

But for coultard to come out and say something doesn't add up (I agree with that) and then to rhymn off a number of reasons why, just makes me wonder, if F1 insiders aren't just out of hand dismissing some of these conspiracy theories, then what the hell do we all know.

The prevalent one, forwarded by Coultard was that Alonso isn't that bothered about the Mclaren.

[timbo]

Well, this reminds me Montoya's tennis(?) accident in 2005...

[acosmichippo]

the thing about all these professionals saying things don't add up is that it doesn't disprove anything mcLaren says. While their story may be unlikely, it is still plausible. I haven't heard any alternative theories with any actual evidence other than a different interpretation of a few still images or eye witness statements.

So while I agree with Couthard and Brundle to the extent that we don't have all the facts, I don't agree that means mclaren's statement is false.

[alexx_88]

So Mclaren confirmed that he suffered a temporary memory loss: http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/24184 ... in-testing , but not to the extent that was reported by the sources which say it lasted for a week or two.

Personally, I don't think something was wrong with the car, but something seems fishy regarding Fernando's condition:
- Car veered inexplicably to the right
- Ron said that the medical exams didn't show a concussion, yet the symptoms suggested one
- Fernando won't be with the team in Australia

The only thing that puts everything together is Fernando having a moment in the car. Either he passes out, or his temporary memory loss was not caused by the crash, but was the cause of the crash. Some reports said that he was very agitated when marshals got to him and he did not know where he was, nor what he was doing in an F1 car. That would explain basically everything, including the need to keep him out of the spotlights for now (until they figure out what happened) and the cause of the crash. How would one of the best drivers on the grid, in what was reported to be a mechanically sound car (shown by the fact that they were confident to send out Button the next day), lose control and not have any coherent reaction, other than throwing it into the wall? This is in line with the team's statements throughout (Alonso was conscious before the crash; He is ok, but not coming to Australia) and Vettel's recollection of the events.

My timeline would be this:
- Alonso enters T3 fully committed, going faster than his any other run for the day
- Has his loss of memory, either because of G forces or something else
- Gust of wind or not, his reactions are now those of a 13-year old kart racer, so he can't do more than clumsily park it into the wall
- Gets taken to the hospital, they see the symptoms of a concussion, but the medical tests don't show one (confirmed by Ron)

Tinfoil hat or not, Mclaren were hiding something before yesterday, when they had to confirm the reports of memory loss, as they were already out there. So it's not like they said everything they knew from the beginning, but rather reacted to what the media found out.



Obviously the other teams are trying to milk this as much as possible and try to force Mclaren Honda to reveal as much information as possible.

[poolboy67]

lost controll of car, either by gust of wind or mechanical/software/driver error.
hits the wall.
hits head enough hard to black out and get concussed.
gets taken to hospital because of concussion symptoms.
clearly has been concussed badly, evidenced by loss of memory.
is held under observation and later, as a safety percaution, is denied the drive on first gp.

there. the full story. no need to make convoluted guesses or theories about electrocution, since it cannot even happen inside the cockpit ect, and all evidence, press statements, alonso's personal statements ect point towards concussion.

close thread please.

[bidong]

lost controll of car, either by gust of wind or mechanical/software/driver error.
hits the wall.
hits head enough hard to black out and get concussed.
gets taken to hospital because of concussion symptoms.
clearly has been concussed badly, evidenced by loss of memory.
is held under observation and later, as a safety percaution, is denied the drive on first gp.

there. the full story. no need to make convoluted guesses or theories about electrocution, since it cannot even happen inside the cockpit ect, and all evidence, press statements, alonso's personal statements ect point towards concussion.

close thread please.

=D>

[Del]

So Mclaren confirmed that he suffered a temporary memory loss: http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/24184 ... in-testing , but not to the extent that was reported by the sources which say it lasted for a week or two.

Personally, I don't think something was wrong with the car, but something seems fishy regarding Fernando's condition:
- Car veered inexplicably to the right
- Ron said that the medical exams didn't show a concussion, yet the symptoms suggested one
- Fernando won't be with the team in Australia

The only thing that puts everything together is Fernando having a moment in the car. Either he passes out, or his temporary memory loss was not caused by the crash, but was the cause of the crash. Some reports said that he was very agitated when marshals got to him and he did not know where he was, nor what he was doing in an F1 car. That would explain basically everything, including the need to keep him out of the spotlights for now (until they figure out what happened) and the cause of the crash. How would one of the best drivers on the grid, in what was reported to be a mechanically sound car (shown by the fact that they were confident to send out Button the next day), lose control and not have any coherent reaction, other than throwing it into the wall? This is in line with the team's statements throughout (Alonso was conscious before the crash; He is ok, but not coming to Australia) and Vettel's recollection of the events.

My timeline would be this:
- Alonso enters T3 fully committed, going faster than his any other run for the day
- Has his loss of memory, either because of G forces or something else
- Gust of wind or not, his reactions are now those of a 13-year old kart racer, so he can't do more than clumsily park it into the wall
...

.....

Sorry,but that's just pure absurdity... faint because of high g-forces in a turn, okay... feel sick because of it, okay... but loose your memory because of a high g turn... that's ridiculous. Also, even a 13-year old kart racer will counter steer the car... and is probably a more complete driver than half of the people out there...
As I said before, Mclaren aren't telling us the whole truth! Why - I don't know. We may never know... but some of the suggestions in this thread are pure bs...

[alexx_88]

@poolboy67: You should probably notify the FIA to not waste their time investigating the issue, nor believe the F1 professionals that disprove Mclaren's party line. The same line that conveniently forgot to mention that Fernando's mind's timeline has moved 20 years back when it got to the hospital and only mentioned it after other sources revealed it.

@Del: I'm saying that the high-G turn triggered a pre-existing condition, obviously.

Really? So if a 13 year old kart racer suddenly wakes up in an F1 car, he won't panic at all about how he got there and just carry on? And, again, there are no external signs of him wrestling the car.

Guys, you're conveniently forgetting the only eye witness' reports and what can supposedly be seen on his onboard camera. There was no loss of control there because of wind, as proven by Vettel's statements and the numerous people in the paddock that don't believe this theory. I don't believe in the electrocution theory as the car has been running fine afterwards, but I do believe there is more than: one of the best drivers on the grid suddenly veers right into a wall. No oversteer, no understeer and makes no effort to correct the trajectory. Look, I agree that the "moved back 20 years theory while driving" seems a bit far-fetched, but this is not your typical accident where everything is clear-cut.

[JimClarkFan]

the thing about all these professionals saying things don't add up is that it doesn't disprove anything mcLaren says. While their story may be unlikely, it is still plausible. I haven't heard any alternative theories with any actual evidence other than a different interpretation of a few still images or eye witness statements.

So while I agree with Couthard and Brundle to the extent that we don't have all the facts, I don't agree that means mclaren's statement is false.

Here is what I think.

Mclaren initially were worried about Alonso and didn't want to give anything away to the media about what seemed initially like a worrying injury. They attempted to give Alonso the privacy he deserves.

I believe there was nothing about the accident that was funny, And i do believe it is highly likely that the astro turf and a combination of wind and bad luck caused the crashed.

Th way Mclaren handled the situation in my opinion is the reason why everyone thinks something doesn't add up, including myself initially. In an effort to calm the situation and give Alonso privacy, they fueled mad theories that had the exact opposite impact.

Now that more details are out, I really do believe Mclaren were attempting to do right by Alonso at the time by with holding information on his condition.

[alexx_88]

Yes, the only problem is that onboard footage from Vettel's car and his recollection don't mention anything about him running wide and losing control. Just an F1 that moves inexplicably to the right and, after the first hit, continues to bounce against the wall. That's the part which seems strange to me.

[lebesset]

@poolboy67: You should probably notify the FIA to not waste their time investigating the issue, nor believe the F1 professionals that disprove Mclaren's party line. The same line that conveniently forgot to mention that Fernando's mind's timeline has moved 20 years back when it got to the hospital and only mentioned it after other sources revealed it.

@Del: I'm saying that the high-G turn triggered a pre-existing condition, obviously.

Really? So if a 13 year old kart racer suddenly wakes up in an F1 car, he won't panic at all about how he got there and just carry on? And, again, there are no external signs of him wrestling the car.

Guys, you're conveniently forgetting the only eye witness' reports and what can supposedly be seen on his onboard camera. There was no loss of control there because of wind, as proven by Vettel's statements and the numerous people in the paddock that don't believe this theory. I don't believe in the electrocution theory as the car has been running fine afterwards, but I do believe there is more than: one of the best drivers on the grid suddenly veers right into a wall. No oversteer, no understeer and makes no effort to correct the trajectory. Look, I agree that the "moved back 20 years theory while driving" seems a bit far-fetched, but this is not your typical accident where everything is clear-cut.

what eye witness !!!
read vettel's statement

I am afraid a lot ot the misinformation stems from ron dennis' statement to the press that alonso didn't have concussion because even a mild one would show up on a CAT scan ; clearly he believed this but it is easily disproved ; concussion may or may not show up on a CAT scan ; one of my closest friends [ a boring old fart like me ] has a PhD in particle acceleration and is a qualified medical doctor as well , spent 30 years developing the technology of MRI as a hospital consultant and represented his country on international committees on the subject ; he informs me that not only is there no certainty that that a CAT scan will show up concussion but there is also no certainty that a MRI scan will ; so ron was either misinformed or he misunderstood , easy under the circumstances in a foreign country

http://en.espnf1.com/mclaren/motorsport ... 92929.html

and he told McLaren what he saw but the FIA haven't contacted him

[TAG]

I say it's deeper than what's being reported, it's Alonso's subconscious wanting to forget the entire last five seasons with the Scuderia.

[andartop]

Contrary to how this thread might look like at first, there is plenty of evidence to be found here...

...for someone researching the social psychology of conspiracy theories!


http://www.open.edu/openlearn/body-mind ... y-theories

[MOWOG]

I say it's deeper than what's being reported, it's Alonso's subconscious wanting to forget the entire last five seasons with the Scuderia.

Finally! That's the first post in this entire thread (including some of my own) that makes any sense!


=D>