2016-2017 chassis and engine rules (proposed)

[PlatinumZealot]

This is how a modern F1 car should look like, F1 should not clinch to the past but more important F1 cars should always have something from the past. The concept by Ferrari and the Adrian Newey ultimate F1 car. Is not the way F1 should go in my opinion. Those cars have too much bodywork. Formula cars never have much body work, its about a clean car. For me an F1 cars must have 4 wheels that aren't boxed in by bodywork, when the moment comes when that stops then it isn't a formula car anymore. the DW12 indycar has rear protection because of the speeds they are doing on ovals when they are racing closely. But in F1 thats is not necessary. The Audi concept is the best modern interpretation i have seen yet of F1. Its clean, but aggresive and proportions are right and the big wheels just make it look like real monster.

http://img3.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Aud ... 833776.jpg

http://img2.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Aud ... 833777.jpg

http://img1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Aud ... 833778.jpg

http://img3.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Aud ... 833775.jpg

http://img1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Aud ... 833779.jpg
http://img3.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Aud ... 833780.jpg

http://img2.auto-motor-und-sport.de/Aud ... 833783.jpg

There is nothing modern about that car's looks if you ask me?

[Manoah2u]

indeed but it does look quite cool though

i could care less about it's front.

the rear though, that's just mighty. that wide tire rear, huge diffuser, low wide rear wing, and that low profile airbox. gorgeous and speedy.

[Manoah2u]

so, how about this, i did some photoshop work....i'll see if the rest of the angles can follow.



side

[Manoah2u]

My proposal:

2017 F1 Chassis & Engine proposal



V6 Turbo ICE unit [+/- 875 HP ] [ Additional rule change tokens from 2017-2019, allowing new manufacturers*]
ERS Hybrid System [ +/- 195 HP ] [ Combined total output of +/- 1070 HP ]
18" Carbon wheels & Fat rear tires#
Low profile body [ low mount airbox ], open roll hoop
Low profile nose
High-impact force resistant windshield **
Improved shock-absorbing side impact structures ##
Shock absorbing front & rear wishbones [ force break point ] %%
Less angled seated driver position
Wide, low rear wing [Active DRS (No drs zones, always operable) ] @@
Centre rear wing mount
driver bulkhead - incorporated driver cam ^^
rear wing side end plate mounted rear cams ^^
Front wishbone mounted cams ^^


* New Engine manufacturers will recieve token package pack to be used in the first season comparable to existing engine manufacturers' combined used token average from 2014 to moment of homologation minus 15. Second year Will grant same amount of tokens as current manufacturers plus 15 tokens. 3rd year of participation same amount of tokens.

# Free Tire choice in every session [ No need to start on Qualy tires ]. Mandated use of 2 different tire compounds during race. FIA - mandated tire change on wet conditions [ Race Direction will impose a mandated use of full-wets when there is a certain amount of rainfall. Not complying will result in a warning to enter pits and change tires immediately or a disqualification from the race + 10 place grid penalty for following race ]

** Special reinforced safety glass/imitation glass able to withstand the force of a tire or able to carry half the weight of an F1 vehicle [driver head protection]

## Upon impact, side crash structure has a 'shatter' level which absorbs initial impact to avoid rapid deceleration injury

%% Comparable to side impact structure, half of the wishbone mounting poitns have a force-applied dependant breakaway safety feature to absorb side impact.

@@ Rear Wing DRS driver-operated. Disactivated under braking. Always engageable [ no need for 1.0 second distance ], no DRS zones.

^^ Full HD onboard cameras, available live for fans using licensed F1 Race Cam APP [Ios, Android, etc.] on any car. (follow your favourite driver during the entire race)

[Moose]

My god that thing's ugly as sin.

[Lca1443]

3L V12 no rev limit, no flow limit. 2m wide. Last year's champ gets to set tire compounds for first race, 2nd place second race and so forth. Create a windtunnel scrutineering test apparatus and limit downforce load at 250km.

[JCC]

Hi there, my first post here

I read this very interesting interview with Stefan Johansson a couple of month ago and I think that a lot of what he said was 100% spot on. And as I can´t express myself better than him on any of those points, I´m gonna quote some of the stuff that he said and add some thoughts of my own too.

English is however not my native language though so please bear with me if (well, when) you find the odd expression or choice of words and what not.
...
I think that there´s a lot that could be done when setting the new regulations that could solve a lot of the problems with F1 of today. I guess that we all want to make the cars harder to drive and look more spectacular both on and off track and saving a lot of expenses for everyone too without any added cost restrictions for the teams.

And it would not be all that hard to accomplish either if those who governs the sport did not let the teams and especially their engineers alone set the technical regulations. I don´t mean that they* should not listen to their opinions, they absolutely should, but they should not let the the teams engineers make the new regulations ridiculously complicated as they have become of now.

*FIA, FOM

"The problem today is that the engineers basically write the rules in F1. They’re fantastic people but you can’t allow them to have this much influence. Any successful racing series has to be run like a benevolent dictatorship and it used to be. Now it’s turned into more of a democracy and it’s just not working."

There´s no questions about that the teams and especially their engineers are not the right ones to set the technical regulations for F1. Just look how the never ever can agree on anything except on questions that never has been raised. And as it´s the most successful teams that are in that Technical Working Group, cost savings aren´t really all that important to them either.

FIA/FOM should listen to the teams opinions and use their knowledge too, but they should not let them set the rules on their own, as those rules will just end up way too complicated once again.

"I don’t know how many options there are for differentials now. That should be banned. Put a standard differential in the cars. These complex, variable diffs have no benefit to anyone. They’re there for the engineers to tinker with and come up with a smarter solution than anyone else, basically because they can."

The car manufacturers are using the argument that F1 must to be "road relevant" all the time but I think that you´ll never have a voice in your road car telling you what kind of differential settings to use at any given moment. It´s prolly technically possible to do though, but I can´t see how any such a car would be permitted on the roads due to the difficulty of driving them for the common driver. So "road relevance" is not really an argument in this case.

"I think that you should ban all of the dials, knobs and switches on the steering wheels to start with you wouldn’t have to worry about the radio because there would be nothing to adjust. Just ban all of the adjustments in the cockpit, end of story. Let the engineers build a car that don’t need all that stuff, and let the drivers sort it out by using throttle control, steering input and let them adjust their driving style in accordance with how the car is performing under different condition in a race situation.

It would make the cars a lot simpler, but a lot harder to drive, which of course all the good guys will love. A proper racecar should be a beast to drive, that’s what every driver worth his salt wants. And it would be so much more exciting for the fans to watch a driver wrestling with his car getting the maximum out of it.

The problem is not with the radios and communications as such; it’s all the stuff behind that causes them to have this never-ending flow of information to the drivers. The cars have become so complicated to run that they literally need to give the drivers a lot of this information in order to keep the cars running to the end of the race.

Just get rid of all the technology that you don’t need. Ban all of the buttons on the steering wheel. Radio and pit-speed are all that’s needed. Let the drivers sort the rest out. If they can’t drive a car with 850 horsepower and three-times the grip they used to have. I hate to sound like an old crank, saying “it was better in my day” but if we could handle 1500 horsepower in the cars we drove with hardly any aero grip, I’m sure these guys could. The top drivers today are all fantastic drivers and I’m sure they’d love it.

It would be fantastic to see Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton power-sliding these things with 1200-1300 horsepower. Let the drivers figure the cars out and get rid of all the extra stuff – the technology that has nothing to do with being a skilled racing driver. Let a little bravery figure into the racing again. That’s what it should be all about."

I could not had said it better myself, hence the quotes. But I would like to add that I think that getting rid of stuff that have no benefits to anyone would save the teams a lot of money too. Here´s the link: Stefan Johansson shares his thoughts
...
I´ve got a lot more thoughts on how I would like the (basic) technical regulations for coming years to look like and how to reduce costs at the same time too, but I´ll leave them for another post as this one would become way too long otherwise.
---------
Cheers
/JC

[Moose]

3L V12 no rev limit, no flow limit. 2m wide. Last year's champ gets to set tire compounds for first race, 2nd place second race and so forth. Create a windtunnel scrutineering test apparatus and limit downforce load at 250km.

Why on earth do people want this "limit downforce load" thing in the rules. All it will do is generate a field of cars with identical downforce production, and hence basically a spec series.

[ParkerArt]

3L V12 no rev limit, no flow limit. 2m wide. Last year's champ gets to set tire compounds for first race, 2nd place second race and so forth. Create a windtunnel scrutineering test apparatus and limit downforce load at 250km.

No thanks Formula Ferrari...

[Tim.Wright]

3L V12 no rev limit, no flow limit. 2m wide. Last year's champ gets to set tire compounds for first race, 2nd place second race and so forth. Create a windtunnel scrutineering test apparatus and limit downforce load at 250km.

Why on earth do people want this "limit downforce load" thing in the rules. All it will do is generate a field of cars with identical downforce production, and hence basically a spec series.

Not to mention it impossible to measure downforce in a realistically practical way at each race

[FoxHound]

Why on earth do people want this "limit downforce load" thing in the rules. All it will do is generate a field of cars with identical downforce production, and hence basically a spec series.

Not to mention it impossible to measure downforce in a realistically practical way at each race

Why limit downforce? Its easily the single biggest spend in F1.Williams pay 20 million for their engines and more than triple that on aero.

I'm not suggesting a total blanket restriction, but I do feel the costs are stupendous from year to year when the previous years solutions are nigh on obsolete.
Thats a ridiculous waste.

Development can be had, but I think the front wings need to be made narrower, the rear wing needs to be made lower. Less area for the boffins to mess with.

Then I would look into utilising more of the diffuser and floor, not an exorbitant amount, just enough to make up for the losses of the former.
In the transition, all teams will find it easier to get the downforce more cheaply.
Backmarkers will also not be floundering 5/6 seconds off the pace setters. If a team wants to spend the rest of their money chasing a rapidly dimished return for 0.100 of a second, let them.

Note this does allow scope for development, just without the massive chasms we've seen with rules previously.

[f1316]

My proposal:

2017 F1 Chassis & Engine proposal

http://i.imgur.com/pu0uoqL.png

V6 Turbo ICE unit [+/- 875 HP ] [ Additional rule change tokens from 2017-2019, allowing new manufacturers*]
ERS Hybrid System [ +/- 195 HP ] [ Combined total output of +/- 1070 HP ]
18" Carbon wheels & Fat rear tires#
Low profile body [ low mount airbox ], open roll hoop
Low profile nose
High-impact force resistant windshield **
Improved shock-absorbing side impact structures ##
Shock absorbing front & rear wishbones [ force break point ] %%
Less angled seated driver position
Wide, low rear wing [Active DRS (No drs zones, always operable) ] @@
Centre rear wing mount
driver bulkhead - incorporated driver cam ^^
rear wing side end plate mounted rear cams ^^
Front wishbone mounted cams ^^


* New Engine manufacturers will recieve token package pack to be used in the first season comparable to existing engine manufacturers' combined used token average from 2014 to moment of homologation minus 15. Second year Will grant same amount of tokens as current manufacturers plus 15 tokens. 3rd year of participation same amount of tokens.

# Free Tire choice in every session [ No need to start on Qualy tires ]. Mandated use of 2 different tire compounds during race. FIA - mandated tire change on wet conditions [ Race Direction will impose a mandated use of full-wets when there is a certain amount of rainfall. Not complying will result in a warning to enter pits and change tires immediately or a disqualification from the race + 10 place grid penalty for following race ]

** Special reinforced safety glass/imitation glass able to withstand the force of a tire or able to carry half the weight of an F1 vehicle [driver head protection]

## Upon impact, side crash structure has a 'shatter' level which absorbs initial impact to avoid rapid deceleration injury

%% Comparable to side impact structure, half of the wishbone mounting poitns have a force-applied dependant breakaway safety feature to absorb side impact.

@@ Rear Wing DRS driver-operated. Disactivated under braking. Always engageable [ no need for 1.0 second distance ], no DRS zones.

^^ Full HD onboard cameras, available live for fans using licensed F1 Race Cam APP [Ios, Android, etc.] on any car. (follow your favourite driver during the entire race)

Very cool stuff, nice work! Would love to see a head on angle.

I personally don't think the aesthetics are hugely important though. I think the perception of a cutting edge racing series is key and that the accompanying sound is an important part of that perception. Fuel efficiency is relevant but a compromise can likely be found by maintaining a low (but perhaps slightly higher) maximum fuel allowance and lifting the flow restriction (refuelling pit stops are also, in my opinion, relevant, as having a heavier than necessary car doesn't seem very efficient- not to mention that fuel strategy was, ya know, interesting and negated the need for contrived tyre stops ).

But we also mustn't throw out the baby with the bath water. Very important point was to avoid the disruptive wake of car in front and raised front wings which also hamper the ability to follow. I also have zero issues with Drs and think the current 1 sec rule allows it to be used only when necessary.

[TzeiTzei]

I wish FIA/strategy group/whoever would just stop fiddling with the rules. Create a rule set and then leave the teams to figure it out. Stop changing things every single year. Please.

[1158]

This thread is a perfect example of what is wrong with the way FIA goes about making the rules. Instead of a small group of smart people not associated with ANY teams making the rules we have the top teams saying what they would like/think will work best.

We have a lot of good suggestions within this thread but do you think we could get a majority to agree on any one package? I'd bet no and the only thing we have involved in this debate is our desire to see more exciting racing. Now imagine if we had hundreds of millions each year riding on this discussion.

As much as I hate to say it a return of the poison dwarf might be better. Sure we would have medals and fake rain, and only God knows what else but then again maybe they wouldn't have to resort to gimmicks to make the show better if the regs were handled better.

That's just my humble opinion. There are a lot of people on here much smarter than I, maybe I'm off the mark.

[JCC]

Well, we´re not really here to agree but to discuss F1 and to have a bit of fun at the same time, aren´t we?

Having said that, I do agree that F1 probably would be in a better shape today if Bernie had not sold to CVC, as he had a lot more power to change things when he own it than he has now just running it. And hence that, he most often could and would stop things that he did not want in F1 (like the V6T PU´s for instance), and help teams out behind closed doors when they were in trouble too. He´s ability to do these things is much more restricted these days.