Token Tactics

[lebesset]

it will have escaped nobody's attention that power unit tokens are going to get a fair amount of attention in 2015 ..lot's of talk already in a number of threads here on F1T
personally I lack the time and interest to follow the minutae of this , but would like to have a general idea of what the manufacturers have done at any point in time eg how many of each type of token they have used and what it means

question is , is this the place and am I alone ?

we won't really know anything much until melbourne [ and what will we know then ? ] but the state of play as I understand it [ probably erroneously ]

mercedes....intend to use a big chunk of their tokens from the get go ....double whammy there , get a fast start to gap the rest of field , also reduce the number of tokens for honda who are clearly an unknown factor

renault ...some tokens at the start of the season , but the main effort by mid season making use of a complete top end rethink which ilmor should have developed by then

ferrari ....majority of tokens developed in house and in use at melbourne , others under development including from an outside consultant

honda ....... waiting to see what they get, would be amazed if they didn't have contingency plans for all scenarios

[lebesset]

well , clearly nobody interested but me , so i feel free to use this thread as an aide memoire so i can look back later in the season
state of play a week before melbourne ...mostly gleaned from Scarb

renault in fact to use 70% of tokens from the start , rest to await Ilmor input by mid season , were 60bhp behind last season

mercedes have used a major part of their tokens which have provided a 46bhp increase

ferrari were 40 bhp behind mercedes last season and have made that up , token usage not clear but not complete , later changes possibly internally and externally sourced ; no info on any changes to manor 2014 engine

[MOWOG]

Not sure nobody's interested. After all, you got my attention!

I think this subject will develop during the season and it's good to have a place to discuss it, especially for dolts like me who only dimly understand the subject in the first place.

[turbof1]

IMO the topic itself is interesting, only a tad too early. We probably will get an official FIA list of what the teams used for tokens next weekend.

[lebesset]

IMO the topic itself is interesting, only a tad too early. We probably will get an official FIA list of what the teams used for tokens next weekend.

well, I certainly hope the FIA are forthcoming , and in detail !

[Mesteño]

Mercedes wasting all takens to prevent Honda from developing and Honda being faster but less reliable (fixable). Result: Honda being dominant the next years.
So many possibilities...

[lebesset]

Mercedes wasting all takens to prevent Honda from developing and Honda being faster but less reliable (fixable). Result: Honda being dominant the next years.
So many possibilities...

I started this thread pecause the permutations look fascinating as you suggest
clearly all the tokens will not be of equal value , hoping somebody here will be clued up enough to judge what produces what ...for sure it won't be me !

[turbof1]

Some general tactics:
-Using most if not all in the beginning, going for an early advantage while sacrificing extra performance later on.
-A balanced approach: using key upgrades now, while still keeping a good chunk of updates for later on.
-Long term strategy: not using several tokens during the seasons, but introducing them before the end of the year in preparation of the 2016 season. This means effectively ditching performance this season in favor of allocating extra tokens for 2016. Advisable if you either have a big enough advantage (merc) or are totally uncompetitive (perhaps Honda if they don't get on top of their issues)

[nevill3]

I thought this situation came about because Renault and Ferrari didn't have enough time to incorporate all the changes they wanted to this winter and so decided to exploit the loophole.

From what I have read on here and around the net Renault have made reliability improvements and will bring performance upgrades later on so they would obviously need to save quite a few tokens for that to happen.

[lebesset]

I thought this situation came about because Renault and Ferrari didn't have enough time to incorporate all the changes they wanted to this winter and so decided to exploit the loophole.

From what I have read on here and around the net Renault have made reliability improvements and will bring performance upgrades later on so they would obviously need to save quite a few tokens for that to happen.

i think that sums it up ..the boss at ferrari spotted the loophole in the regs and it seems that they , as well as renault , didn't have all their upgrades ready for the start of the season probably as they called in outside help too late [ ilmor confirmed for renault , not certain who ferrari have consulted ]
mercedes seem to be ready from the get go , but under the circumstances would be surprised if they don't keep a few back even though they would like to restrict Honda as much as possible
don't know what others think but personally i think the allocation to Honda is about fair except they should have been allowed the 5th engine for their first season .....it was a push for the others last year on 5 and would have been for them this year ...no way do I see them surviving on 4

[giantfan10]

well they did decide to join the party late(after the first year of this engine formula)... there has to be a penalty for that... i think they have had enough concessions... leave it the way it is

[f1316]

well , clearly nobody interested but me , so i feel free to use this thread as an aide memoire so i can look back later in the season
state of play a week before melbourne ...mostly gleaned from Scarb

renault in fact to use 70% of tokens from the start , rest to await Ilmor input by mid season , were 60bhp behind last season

mercedes have used a major part of their tokens which have provided a 46bhp increase

ferrari were 40 bhp behind mercedes last season and have made that up , token usage not clear but not complete , later changes possibly internally and externally sourced ; no info on any changes to manor 2014 engine

Everything I have read is bandying around an 80 bhp gain by Ferrari. Sounds like a lot but I've read it numerous places.

However I understood 50-60 behind Mercedes from last year with Mercedes also finding a similar 50-60, so still 20-40 behind.

Latest rumour from the Ferrari car thread is that they won't use everything they tested in Barcelona though, seemingly because there will be more benefit long term for reserving those tokens for later.

[frosty125]

Maybe I'm wrong but I get sense that RB are not happy with Renault's progress I wouldn't be surprised if they push to go for the long term plan. That said I'm not sure how much influence RB will have over Renault. Renault must be looking at Mercedes and Honda and seeing how positive those manufactures are being about their suppliers then you have Renault not getting much of the RB media glory.

[lebesset]

well they did decide to join the party late(after the first year of this engine formula)... there has to be a penalty for that... i think they have had enough concessions... leave it the way it is

why on earth should there be a penalty ??
surely equity is what is required !
how on earth are more manufacturers are to be encouraged into the sport if they can't compete !

[Sevach]

well , clearly nobody interested but me , so i feel free to use this thread as an aide memoire so i can look back later in the season
state of play a week before melbourne ...mostly gleaned from Scarb

renault in fact to use 70% of tokens from the start , rest to await Ilmor input by mid season , were 60bhp behind last season

mercedes have used a major part of their tokens which have provided a 46bhp increase

ferrari were 40 bhp behind mercedes last season and have made that up , token usage not clear but not complete , later changes possibly internally and externally sourced ; no info on any changes to manor 2014 engine

It's not a matter of nobody interested, it's just that at this point it's all speculation.
Right now i don't have a good grasp on things to comment on, how many tokens each have left? how competitive is each engine? It's hard to say...