Alonso's Crash

[adrianjordan]

perhaps ben edwards doesn't realise that the blood tests showed there was no electric shock

personally I am content to wait to see the FIA report , but here's my preview

alonso tried a faster line from the beginning of the lap , got too wide on turn 3 , lost car , got hit by strong gust of wind , couldn't recover , hit wall

Don't be so positive on the blood tests. They work for a major shock...do we know how big it should be to loose a F1 car? may be not so big...
Today Jaques villeneuve completely excluded the wind theory. He used to drive F1 car not so much time ago...I guess he knows what he is saying

Jacques last drove an f1 car, what, 9 years ago?

I doubt his word carries more authority than people still involved in the sport... Got him in the news though...

[Tim.Wright]

No it wont. It only opens the door for everyone to back up their theories with data they know absolutely nothing about.

All Telemetry will show is if something in the car itself caused the crash, which will answer nothing in the whole discussion because it doesn't answer, nor give any signs towards why Alonso was in the hospital for so long and misses the Australian GP.

Sorry but what?

Telemetry show it all, from any driver input to downforce levels. If you see driver stopped moving the wheel and didn´t hit the brakes you´d know he had some sort of blackout before the crash. If you see downforce sudendly decreased you´d know wind played its role. If you see some weird input to some pedal or the wheel you could argue about an electrical shock.You can even see if he went out of the track to the astroturf before going to the wall

Basically you see it all on telemetry

And Alonso was in hospital for so long because he suffered a concusion, same as Perez in Monaco 11 who missed next GP

Very rarely is anything crystal clear in the telemetry. There is a large amount of manual interpretation required to make head or tail of anything whether you are making an accident investigations or a basic performance analysis.

You can't leave this interpretation up to the internet and the tabloids.

Releasing the telemetry would be opening a massive can of worms...

[R_Redding]

If we all watch this .. then we'll be experts in telemetry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sR5oCIfXDI

[Manoah2u]

If we all watch this .. then we'll be experts in telemetry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sR5oCIfXDI

that was thoroughly boring

[wesley123]

No it wont. It only opens the door for everyone to back up their theories with data they know absolutely nothing about.

All Telemetry will show is if something in the car itself caused the crash, which will answer nothing in the whole discussion because it doesn't answer, nor give any signs towards why Alonso was in the hospital for so long and misses the Australian GP.

Sorry but what?

Telemetry show it all, from any driver input to downforce levels. If you see driver stopped moving the wheel and didn´t hit the brakes you´d know he had some sort of blackout before the crash. If you see downforce sudendly decreased you´d know wind played its role. If you see some weird input to some pedal or the wheel you could argue about an electrical shock.You can even see if he went out of the track to the astroturf before going to the wall

Basically you see it all on telemetry

Which needs to be interpreted by a human being. Which is where the fun part comes in; People will just interpret it to their liking to support their own assumptions.

Enough "experts" have voiced their opinion on it already.

Also, the telemetry would be a fun thing. Let's say the telemetry shows wheelspin. Wouldn't you say that contributed to the crash? Maybe it did, but what if that was a normal event coming out of T3? This single piece of telemetry wouldn't show much as it would lack contrast. It lacks a comparison of previous runs through T3. You can't really tell what is wrong if you don't know what is right, what the normal operation is.

Releasing the telemetry would be, what Tim already said. opening a big can of worms. It opens the door wide for everyone to misinterpret data to support their theories.

[andylaurence]

Let's put this theory to the test. Here's the data from my last crash. Perhaps someone would like to tell me the cause...

[AnthonyG]

Seems to me you lost the rear under acceleration on a mixed surface resistance.

[Tim.Wright]

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7621/165 ... 68ff_o.png

Looks like there was a problem somewhere between the steering wheel and the seat.

There is quite a delay between your speed and Ax channels too.

I'd guess understeer on corner exit, car leaves the track, spins once then hits something front first.

As to why? well without steering, throttle and brake you will never be able to deduce anything with a reasonable amount of certainty. Infact I can't even tell if the loss of control (or electrocution ) starts at 580s or 583s.

Adding a steering sensor also allows you to quantify OS/US behavior so its a worthwhile investment for a club racer.

[sAx]

Let's put this theory to the test...
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7621/165 ... 68ff_o.png

A talent thing or a fuel thing.....pray do tell??

[Thunder]

https://twitter.com/adamcooperF1/status ... 6130274304 https://twitter.com/adamcooperF1/status ... 7185750017

[mertol]

There is something wrong with this telemetry - rpm corresponds very poorly with your speed. Especially the drop just after 570 - your rpm drops gradually but the car accelerates?! Then at the supposed impact point (where the pink G graph goes off the chart) your speed doesn't seem to drop as hard as it would from an impact. Is that speed averaged over a period? Can you also provide driver inputs?

[Tim.Wright]

There is something wrong with this telemetry - rpm corresponds very poorly with your speed. Especially the drop just after 570 - your rpm drops gradually but the car accelerates?! Then at the supposed impact point (where the pink G graph goes off the chart) your speed doesn't seem to drop as hard as it would from an impact. Is that speed averaged over a period? Can you also provide driver inputs?

Unless the gps speed is doppler based, it will be likely calculated from a smoothed position signal. GPS position data is extremely noisy and inaccurate, so you will never get a decent speed measurement from it unless you combine it with accelerometer measurements and some reasonably complicated data processing.

Given the delay between the speed and Ax channels I'd guess this is the case.

[Andres125sx]

No it wont. It only opens the door for everyone to back up their theories with data they know absolutely nothing about.

All Telemetry will show is if something in the car itself caused the crash, which will answer nothing in the whole discussion because it doesn't answer, nor give any signs towards why Alonso was in the hospital for so long and misses the Australian GP.

Sorry but what?

Telemetry show it all, from any driver input to downforce levels. If you see driver stopped moving the wheel and didn´t hit the brakes you´d know he had some sort of blackout before the crash. If you see downforce sudendly decreased you´d know wind played its role. If you see some weird input to some pedal or the wheel you could argue about an electrical shock.You can even see if he went out of the track to the astroturf before going to the wall

Basically you see it all on telemetry

And Alonso was in hospital for so long because he suffered a concusion, same as Perez in Monaco 11 who missed next GP

Very rarely is anything crystal clear in the telemetry. There is a large amount of manual interpretation required to make head or tail of anything whether you are making an accident investigations or a basic performance analysis.

You can't leave this interpretation up to the internet and the tabloids.

Releasing the telemetry would be opening a massive can of worms...

I didn´t say it should be published, only that everything is on the telemetry

To figure something out from telemetry you need to use the program, publishing some graph clarify nothing, you need to overlay different laps to make a comparison, you need to use different data depending on what you´re analizing, you need to compare compare and compare

Nothing is crystal clear in the telemetry...... if you don´t see driver suddenly turned the wheel with no reason, or if you don´t see a drop in downforce, or if you don´t see battery voltage suddenly dropped, or if you don´t see driver suddenly stopped making any input.... There can be tons of facts wich would be crystal clear just watching the correct data in the telemetry

[mertol]

Well it's pretty much useless channel then...

It's not important what anyone in the forum could read from the telemetry. For me it would be enough if McLaren came out and said - "these and these features of the graphs show to us that wind is the cause". If an expert could determine the wind is the cause then he would be able to find pretty much any other causes too.

[Andres125sx]

Let's put this theory to the test. Here's the data from my last crash. Perhaps someone would like to tell me the cause...

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7621/165 ... 68ff_o.png

I´d like, but with so little info it´s not possible

But if you provide me the data about driver inputs (wheel, throttle and brake position), give me two or three laps of normal telemetry, give me track postition, and I´ll say what was the reason for the crash